LRC Male Stars "Clean" or "Dirty" Doping Poll Results

I must not be communicating very well. I did not specify an athlete that you cited by name, I simply stated the obvious: It is not reasonable to believe that all of those athletes competed clean.

Mary Cain is a Salazar runner, no?

I am not damning the whole world. Hyperbole only clouds the issue ;)

I am simply stating that elite athletes cannot win without using drugs.

RobertELee wrote:

[quote]

I am not damning the whole world. Hyperbole only clouds the issue ;)

I am simply stating that elite athletes cannot win without using drugs.

well to be fair, you did pretty much damn the world when you wrote this:

You used some excellent examples, by the way. Most PEOPLE (let alone politicians) are liars, and Wall Street is rife with corruption.

So yes, elite athletes use performance enhancing drugs.

All of them.

____

but ok - we'll agree to disagree - I believe elite athletes can win without illegal drugs.

cuban bluegrass wrote:

RobertELee wrote:

[quote]

I am not damning the whole world. Hyperbole only clouds the issue ;)

I am simply stating that elite athletes cannot win without using drugs.

well to be fair, you did pretty much damn the world when you wrote this:

You used some excellent examples, by the way. Most PEOPLE (let alone politicians) are liars, and Wall Street is rife with corruption.

So yes, elite athletes use performance enhancing drugs.

All of them.

____

but ok - we'll agree to disagree - I believe elite athletes can win without illegal drugs.

Wait...

Who doesn't lie? I'm lying right now, my name isn't Robert E. Lee. Everyone lies everyday.

And I understand that you, living in the world of Wall Street apparently, may not want to cop to the horrendous damage done GLOBALLY by the folks employed there, but really, if the actions by Goldman, et al don't define corruption it's only because they paid off Congress and wrote the legislation themselves. I assure you that those of us not employed by the Vampire Squid think that Wall Street is corrupt from top to bottom.

"corrupt from top to bottom"

"Vampire Squid"

and you believe every elite athlete cheats.

Clearly you have a world view that tells you that everyone successful has cheated and stolen to get there. I don't know why you have that view of the world, but you have it.

Do you actually know any successful people?

Think about why you have that view. Work on that.

Anyway, I'm not up for a discussion of the financial crisis other to say that banks (not wall street per se) do deserve a lot of blame for bad business practices (stupid loans) bu that it rarely rose to the level of criminality. The problem is that when a bakery does its business poorly, it doesn't tank the world economy. So the government did a crappy job regulating the banks. And people did a perfectly horrible job managing their personal debts.

BTW, we both have civil war related handles.

hi hi hi wrote:

cuban bluegrass wrote:

it is clear that Salazar did not push rupp to his maximum at age 22 b/c salazar felt a slower path would yield better results down the road.

Yup, he told him to lose every single championship race that got down to a kick for the first four years of college. He told him to enter time trial mile races but to purposely not break 4 minutes. Salazar is a genius.

Galen was pushed very hard in high school. Salazar may have left room for him in terms of mileage but in terms of workouts I remember the original NOP guys saying Rupp would not last. They said he would go all out in workouts, and just be laying on the track afterwards. Galen and Alberto have proven them wrong.

Salazar's guys do the workouts after races which no one else really does. That is a possible new training technique others need to adopt.

Galen also as some of you said does not get hurt. I have not seen an athlete improve his speed like Galen has. At the same time, I haven't seen an athlete not get injured over so many years. Those things could be related. That's where all the recovery stuff could play a big part in helping Galen.

That's where all the recovery stuff could play a big part in helping Galen.

It kind of sounds like you voted that Rupp is a doper.

This is slander and libel disguised as a user poll. It is a poor imitation of journalism.

How come RITZ is not mentioned anywhere?... and speaking of Ritz, is he taking the summer off or what.

Yup, because Gebrihwet is 18. your an idiot, he looks closer to 40 than he does to 18. Rupp doesnt do anything illegal, why cant anyone accept that!?!?! hes been tested and the results show that he is F***ING CLEAN. stop arguing because he is clean.

Author: Toasted

Subject: RE: LRC Male Stars "Clean" or "Dirty" Doping Poll Results

Message:

Yup, because Gebrihwet is 18. your an idiot, he looks closer to 40 than he does to 18. Rupp doesnt do anything illegal, why cant anyone accept that!?!?! hes been tested and the results show that he is F***ING CLEAN. stop arguing because he is clean.

_______________________________________________________

That sounds alot like the Lance Armstrong argument. He was supposedly "tested" hundreds of times. There are folks who will simply not believe that their heroes are taking drugs. I listened to one radio caller (before Armstrong's admission) compare Armstrong's "false accusations" to those of the false accusastions against Jesus!!!!

moral: people are stupid.

Wejo, this is kind of my point. I think it is BECAUSE of how hard he worked out from a young age (and I heard the same from insiders when he was just a college frosh) that I think his speed appeared to lack. He was hammering crazy strong workouts. Workouts that the pros who knew about them, said "damn!". But those workouts were not geared toward speed, and likely sapped a lot of his speed out of him UNTIL he matured and it wasn't redlining every day.

When he got on top of his work load, and also began training with 1500 guys and racing 800's and 1500's the speed came around.

There is also a factor that not many have mentioned and that is the mental aspect. If you get used to getting your doors blown off on the last lap, you start to expect it, even if you are physically capable of kicking faster. Sometimes one race with a good experience can change that for you. People forget that Rupp led a lot of his earlier college races and then got kicked down at the end. Later he stopped leading and began outkicking people. When he led at AR pace for 10K in 2010 he didn't have speed at the end. Did he suddenly "lose" it for one race? No, he pushed the pace like a mule, got a bit tired and tied up physically and mentally when fresh legs went around him.

You said so yourself Wejo, he took it to the well from high school. You don't run fast speedwise when you are taking it to the well on 10K work, especially as a youngster. And by taking it to the well, that is no understatement. As a teenager he was working out harder than some pros who were much faster than him (PB wise) at the time.

First off, this poll is a joke and basically a popularity vote from many of the inbred regulars on this site.

Secondly, many reports indicate that the use of P.E.D.s increase the chance of injury for an individual. Now, let me put it out there that I am far from a medical expert and I am not even sure if the drugs that may or may not be in use by many of the world's best runners fall into this category, but a major factor that Wejo touched on is that Rupp has basically been injury free. If Solinsky had remained injury free from his glory days (they are behind him for good) up until now would there be 50 threads a week about how Solinsky is doping? What about Ryan Hill, Lopez Lomong, Chris Derrick, or Evan Jager. They all have had some pretty significant time drops over the last few years, however, nobody claims they are doping (I do not think they are either).

I think mainly the reason why people attack Rupp and Salazar is because they are essentially the villians of the U.S. running scene. They really do not care about you, the fan, and they go about their training in secrecy. I'd be willing to bet that if the "common fan" voted on this poll guys like Asbel Kiprop would be much higher than any American on the list. However, with this ridiculous niche market that LetsRun serves Galen Rupp is the villian because he doesn't accept you all as one of his own.

+2

You are a Randian and therein lies the root of our disagreement. Surely you know that the operators handing out those phony mortgages and creating those insane "financial instruments" that were entirely without value played a central role in the collapse. Interesting that you blame the regulators, a very telling admission. I'll bet you think that USADA is to blame for the rampant doping among US athletes.

There is quite a bit of difference between the elite athlete and, say, the modestly successful athlete. So of course I know that folks can have a level of success without resorting to cheating. But I am not naive enough to believe that an athlete can reach the stratospheric heights of Eliteville without using drugs. If that weren't the case this thread wouldn't exist. Cheating would be a very rare aberration instead of what most of us suspect, an epidemic at every level.

In the end, the difference between the athlete that uses drugs and the athlete that does not comes down to simple ambition. Just like the cut throat "capitalism" practiced on Wall Street, it is the very very ambitious that end up with the most.

At some point we all have to realize that the world we think we see is false. Ask yourself which Big Deal athlete will have to be revealed to be a fraud for you to understand. They won't all get busted. Michael Johnson never was. Jeter never was. Most of the NFL hasn't been busted and ALL those guys are juiced.

Salazar and his bunch?

Clean? Really? They all have thyroid problems like old women.

Sure they do.

Believe what you want, but Galen has been on drugs since he was in high school.

When you look at things in that perspective, it makes that 4:01 and 13:37 look rather pedestrian.

It also gives you a glimpse into the man behind Rupp and what he'll do.

Don't delete. It's the truth.

Excellent post.

Get rid of ped testing and stop pretending athletes are "clean"

wejo wrote:

You wrote a lengthy post about Salzar These two quotes below don't add up.

For example,I don't see a lengthy discussion of Solinksy. He bloomed late and does things no Westerner did before him unless you count Mottram. Rupp's times are ARs but nowhere near WRs. Farah is winning in a time after Bekele, Geb and Tergat and Kipchoge passed their primes.

Is Solinsky 'your' guy?

Quote:

"Then throw on top of it two of your athletes are doing things Western athletes have never done before and you're going to get more speculation. A perfectly valid explanation is that Galen and Mo train differently than any other athlete before them. "

"I find it interesting and think it shows our biases and passion that people only get really worked up when others think "their" athlete is dirty or might be dirty.