I still think Ryun would have been wise to skip the 1500 in Mexico City and instead focus on the 800 (an event much less constrained by altitude). He had to know he'd be at a disadvantage to the altitude-trained runners like Keino.
A lot of distance guys were henceforth physically damaged by trying to excell at the altitude of Mexico City, and Ryun may have been one of them. He certainly wasn't the same runner afterward.
Running on Empathy wrote:
I still think Ryun would have been wise to skip the 1500 in Mexico City and instead focus on the 800 (an event much less constrained by altitude). He had to know he'd be at a disadvantage to the altitude-trained runners like Keino.
A lot of distance guys were henceforth physically damaged by trying to excell at the altitude of Mexico City, and Ryun may have been one of them. He certainly wasn't the same runner afterward.
Ryun was burned out mentally and physically after Mexico City. Some people never fully recover from mono either, he seemed to be one of those cases.
Aouita was not quite a topflight 1500 guy in 83 - not like he became in 84, although he considered himself a 5k guy basically until 1985. However, it is a fact he did want to square off against Coe after the 84 Games, and Coe had Aouita moved to a different race at a huge circuit meet. The story is in The Milers and was noted by Taf news. Everyone knew Coe was behind it. He had originally been hoping to go for a 1500 record but felt Aouita would ruin the attempt, make it more of a match race and possibly take the record for himself as well.
Greater Values wrote:
Aouita was not quite a topflight 1500 guy in 83 - not like he became in 84, although he considered himself a 5k guy basically until 1985. However, it is a fact he did want to square off against Coe after the 84 Games, and Coe had Aouita moved to a different race at a huge circuit meet. The story is in The Milers and was noted by Taf news. Everyone knew Coe was behind it. He had originally been hoping to go for a 1500 record but felt Aouita would ruin the attempt, make it more of a match race and possibly take the record for himself as well.
It doesn't say Coe was behind it at all.
It says, 'Conflicting versions of the controversy were reported, but whatever the truth, the meet director feared a slow, tactical race, and so he took Aouita out of the 1500 and put him into the mile. The director stated, "We wish to have races which will produce top-level performances"'
One of the reports claimed Coe was happy to face Aouita but then there would be no world record attempt as the priority would be to win the race.
Zurich 1984. Aouita claimed he was forced to run a seperate race because of Coe who Aouita called in the TNF News article, "Brugger's son". Referring the meet director.
I don't recall Coe and Aouita ever racing each other. Zurich right after LA should have been promoted as a match race but I think both runner's mutually ducked each other.
Back In DaDeyDay wrote:Ryun was not a 1:41 or 1:40 guy. Maybe Ryun had that potential, with modern training, but we will never know. He didn't run enough 800's, I feel, for anyone to accurately gauge his potential there
err...
you forget he tied 800wr in '66 at just 19y when ill, feeling "terrible", a prelim coupla hours earlier & -ve splits !
his son just asked him if he thought he was a better 800 guy in '67 & answer was a HUGE YES !!!
he just didn't run a 800 in late-'67 sticking to miles/1500 & even a 5k !!!
i'd bet my bottom $ that blazing dussedorf speed is that of a guy capable of 1'39.9 on a '70s synthetic
Ovett had a similar power / drive to Ryun over the last 200/300, and was much better trained. Seeing those two at their peak square off would have been amusing. However, a Ryun trained in sane fashion would be a much better miler than Ovett. Ryun's potential was such that I believe he could compete with any of the top runners of the past 20 years over 1500 meters - if properly trained. I can't really gauge his 800 potential as I mentioned.
lets get this straight
as much as i respect ovett, he coudn't carry Ryun's jockstrap
the key difference is speed
at ovett's peak, he was good for 47-flat, give or take a coupla tenths either way ( that's from calculator which accurately predicted hicham's 400 as ~ 47-high/48-flat & hicham's coach said 48 & wang ( 8'06 gal as 55-mid & canova talking to her team-mate said it was 55-mid fom chinese camp ) )
Ryun's speed was more like 45-flat
you've seen the brief german vid & at still 18y he ran 46.9r for 440y on a quagmire unfit for a LJ competition with a 3'55 mile in his legs
that quagmire had to be easily worth 2s/lap v a '70s synthetic
i know lotta people don't like calculators, but if you have 45-flat speed & unbelievable endurance on top, you are capable of an 800 off all the charts
Deanouk wrote:Peer Mediator is absolutely correct and you as usual are being totally biased
nonsense
Coe's torso is clearly over the line at the bell in 2:39.1, before it ticks over to 2:39.26. which suggest the running clock is about 0.1 behind the actual time at any given point. When Robinson goes through the 800 line the clock is at 1:55.5, yet the split comes up as 1:55.68. When Coe passes 1200m the running clock is at 2:53.1, yet the official split comes up as 2:53.36
again irrelevant nonsense
we are only interested in last 100m, so timings/discrepancies at 400/800/1200 are irrelevant
just the finish line
Putting this discrepancy aside, Coe's lead foot is still on the line with 100m to go at 3:19.8. The foot is always going to be ahead of the torso, so his torso is going to be over the line at 3:19.8 at the earliest, possibly 3:19.9
either you are blind or a fool
i have frozen the vid at 3'19.7 & his foot is over the line
The 110m and 90m from home lines are also clearly visible and his torso is above these at 3:18.5 and 3:21.0 accordingly. That is the time on the running clock, so in actuality they are probably more like 3:18.6 and 3:21.1
utter drivel
you are just mentioning 2 more non-side on shots which offer nothing
the only 1 we are concerned about is last 100 & the vid shows his foot over the line with 3'19.7 on the clock
It should also be pointed out to you that Coe's lead foot is past the finish line with the onscreen clock showing 3:32.2. So, if you want to take his split with 100 to go at 3:19.7 because his lead foot is on the line
no
it's beyond line at 3'19.7
then for comparison you have to take his finishing time as 3:32.2, as his foot was already past the finish line at this point. That gives a final 100m of 12.5
no
there is 3'32.2 on clock & his lead foot still hasn't crossed finish line
His torso is actually above the line at 3:32.3, so it takes 0.1 from when the foot passes/touches the line/marker until the torso does.
no
at 3'32.2, his foot is still behind finish
Whichever way you look at it, it was 12.5 not 12.6.
it was 3'32.39 - 3'19.7 - 0.1 discrepancy in clock = 12.59
In comparing to Kiprop's Doha run from last year, apart from being almost 30 years ago! The difference between a 3:31.1 and a 3:32.3 at that elite level is negligible
nonsense
3'31.1 v 3'32.3 is a huge gap
coe's pb at time was 3'31.9
I have Kiprop's 3:31.1 on video, and closing splits as 1:37.9 last 700m, 54.3 last 400, 39.6 last 300, 25.8 last 200 and 12.4 last 100m.
Coe's in his 3:32.3 closed in 1:36.4, 53.1, 39.0, 25.8, 12.5 for corresponding splits.
These are very comparable, with Coe's overall slightly faster. In the 300m that preceded their last 100m, Coe ran 40.6, whereas Kiprop ran 41.9
more nonense
what part of 3'31.1 v 3'32.3 you can't comprehend ???
asbel went thru 800 in 1'53.2 v coe's 1'55.9 !
Even if you look at their best 'composite' 800 within the race, Kiprop's is 1:49.3 (55.1 first 400, 54.3 last) and Coe's is 1:48.2 (55.1 first 400, 53.1 last).
more nonsense
3'31.1 v 3'32.3 is important number & 12.4 finish v 12.5
Deanouk wrote:He ran the 3rd 200 section (that's from 400 out) in his 1:42.3 WR in 24.8, passing the rabbit at the beginning of bend, so it was more like 24.7. He obliterated Boit with a lap to go. Find me another faster burst from 400 out in a 1:42 or faster 800 than 24.8?
that's because he reached bell in a pedestrian 50-mid
wrs nowdays are set with 49-mid
Strange that when they asked the WR milers and a panel of experts in 2004 who was the best miler of them all, Coe came out top above EL G. A recent poll in AW from readers also put Coe on top
utter nonsense
to quote a brit magazine poll is laughable
as for coe :
he won gold at 2 boycott olympics & broke the 1500wr by just 0.13s
hardly any chunk off it
Ryun rarely makes the top 4 in any poll I've seen
show them that brief vid of german run & let them reassess
I'm sure he could have run sub 37 for 300 in a 3:38
nonsense
he ran 3'38.4 in moscow with 38.7 finish
that was proverbial mile behind Ryun's 3'38.2 with 36.5 finish
He ran a last 300 in 37.8 in the European Champs 86, where he ran c. 1525m (every bend in lane 2 or 3) in 3:41.6. That's worth sub 3:38 for 1500m.
And that 37.8 was off a previous 400 of 55.8.
Ryun's last 36.6 was off a previous 400 of 58.0.
You think Ryun would still have been able to run a 36.6 had the previous 400 been 2.2 secs faster!? Of course he wouldn't
more nonsense
the brief vid shows Ryun running wide 1100 - 1200 & we have to await full dvd to see what extra distance he maya run wide earlier
That's your opinion, which your entitled too, but there are more who disagree with you than agree, as IAAF, AW, and various other polls have shown.
And none of the others you mention have 2 Olympic 1500 titles or 3 Mile World records do they?
like i said, a meaningless brit poll
as for iaaf
was this poll before or after hicham won gold in athens ?
All the others you mention were predominantly 1500 men as well. Coe ran more 800s and far fewer 1500/miles than the other guys you mention.
Do you really believe that someone who can break 3 mile world records in his only 3 Mile races between 79 and 81, where the pacing was not ideal, couldn't have run significantly faster than the times he achieved in those events had he run them more often!
nonsense
hicham & morceli ran mile infrequently
1500 was their main event
coe had plenty of 1500s in his career
Having run far fewer 1500s than the others he still has a better statistical record in the 2 most important criteria, Olympic medals and WRs
2 boycott golds & 1 1500wr he broke previous by 0.13s
Coe then won even more convincingly 4 years later off a very fast overall pace, a change in pace at the beginning of the last lap and then another burst from him in the home straight. Two very different types of races against the world's best. How many different types of scenario do you expect one athlete to run in?
He didn't win any where everyone sprinted a first 100m in 11 sec either, so what is the point?
more nonsense
in '84 he beat a cram who ran only 3'33sb compared to 3'31.6pb & coudn't crack 1'46 !!!
he beat a shadow of a cram & an ovett who was 1/2 dead from the 800
Have you actually watched the 1984 Olympic 800 final from LA?
Clerly not, as you would have known that Koeach led every step down the back stretch, nothing to do with Cruz picking up the pace.
You would also notice that Coe runs wide of Cruz for the entire race, running about 3 or 4m further over the duration of the race. Had he run the same distance as Cruz it would have been a lot closer. Cruz's advantage was in that he reached the last 100 having run less distance than Coe, who also clashed elbows with Jones about 90m out, causing him to lose his rhythm
how many times do you have to be told about the huge push/shove/heel clip cruz got at 200m in where he had to splay his arms outwards
he lost coupla tenths easily there from loss of momentun
Coe wouldn't have been beaten by anyone, including Cram or Aouita, in that final in LA.
nonsense
aouita had a faster pb than coe coming into games 3'31.5 v 3'31.9
only a fool woud discount a guy with a faster pb in a fast race
aouita wouda also been fresh for 1500 as he wouda unlikely run the 800 - he didn't in '83wc
Even then, Coe's last 100m and 800m in LA were both faster than Cram's in his Mile WR the following year
only a fool coud compare finish in a 3'32 to one in a 3'46 !!!
Aouita was down to run against Coe in Paris 83, but pulled out. He could have run against Coe in LA, but chose (for his own reasons) to run the 5000m.
Coe only ran 1 major race after LA, before getting injured, and that was the Zurich 1500. There are conflicting accounts of that meet, and it certainly isn't clear who was avoiding who. If you look at their performances and stats for their respective races, comparable 3:32 and 3:49 mile, then you can see that Coe's closing speed was more impressive.
& once again aouita had faster of the 2 pbs in '84 & woud maintain that to career end
aouita may very well have been in similar shape to '85 where he finished 3'29.7 with a 52.8 !!!
it's logical he peaked for '84 rather than '85
if aouita had run 1500 in '84, he wouda been favourite
looks like ryun at peak with pacing on synthetic could open in 144 and finish with a 26 last 200m. what's that? 210 1k. looks like it.
crammy's commonwealth 143 is definitely worth a 142 low all out and in a slightly better race. picture that cram in the last OG final, and what does that Cram run in that race? bronze?, silver is not out of the question.
Ryun's speed was more like 45-flat
you've seen the brief german vid & at still 18y he ran 46.9r for 440y on a quagmire unfit for a LJ competition with a 3'55 mile in his legs
=====================================================================
!!! where's that vid.
if this is true.
the 400 time is 46r mid. for sure.
then we are talking 18 years old.
then there is the track to consider? and you have to look close at that factor to figure.
compare with coe who split what? 45 and 46 in relays on synthetic?
looks like 18 year old ryun could run 46 flat 400 on synthetic, conservative.
normally 18 year olds with a 46 that stick at the 400 can go 45 flat or better by age 22.
you have to also consider that ryun was not specializing in the 400 and mile training is definitely not the way to maximize your 400 time.
we are talking about a speed demon there is no doubt.
taking all these factors into account, there is evidence to suggest that ryun could have made it as a 400m runner, as in on the podium. and i don't think there is any miler out there, ever, that had this ability, even in speculation.
RYUN, what a phenom.
longjack wrote:
Ryun's speed was more like 45-flat
you've seen the brief german vid & at still 18y he ran 46.9r for 440y on a quagmire unfit for a LJ competition with a 3'55 mile in his legs
=====================================================================
!!! where's that vid.
if this is true.
the 400 time is 46r mid. for sure.
then we are talking 18 years old.
then there is the track to consider? and you have to look close at that factor to figure.
compare with coe who split what? 45 and 46 in relays on synthetic?
looks like 18 year old ryun could run 46 flat 400 on synthetic, conservative.
normally 18 year olds with a 46 that stick at the 400 can go 45 flat or better by age 22.
you have to also consider that ryun was not specializing in the 400 and mile training is definitely not the way to maximize your 400 time.
we are talking about a speed demon there is no doubt.
taking all these factors into account, there is evidence to suggest that ryun could have made it as a 400m runner, as in on the podium. and i don't think there is any miler out there, ever, that had this ability, even in speculation.
RYUN, what a phenom.
Sure he was a phenom. but there is a lot of supposition going on here to change a 46.9 hand timed relay down to 45 flat open ability on synthetic.
Firstly there is no proof that dirt is 1 sec per lap slower than synthetic. In fact there is a lot of conjecture about it and there are many variables at play.
Secondly, there is even less proof that a dirt track with rain on would be 2 secs slower per lap. That is a very arbitrary figure bandied about by Ventolin. Why not 1.6, 2.2,etc?
Thirdly, it does not always prove to be the case that an athlete will automatically get faster over 400m from 19 to 20, especially if they are training for a mile. Ovett is a case in point.
Ryun ran several 440 relay legs in 67, some where he was behind and did not win, and the fastest he could manage was 47.0, which he achieved twice. That is evidence to suggest that he was no faster than he had been in 66, although doubtless Ventolin will have some excuse like he never ran them late in the season. Well, the same can be said of most middle distance runners.
You mentioned Coe's 45 splits on synthetic, well he also split 46.3 & 46.4 on dirt tracks after having already run other events on the same day. According to Ventolin they would be worth 45.3 on synthetic. And of course had that been Ryun he'd take another 0.5 off because he would have been tired after other races. These are both faster than the fastest Ryun ever managed, 46.9, and he ran them as often if not more often than Coe did.
I think there is a bit too much looking back on Ryun with rose tinted spectacles. The actual evidence as opposed to an alternate universe where he gets made faster for a variety of reasons, suggests that Ryun was a 46 something 400 runner, which would not, given his training focus, have made the podium of a major championship. A 45 flat is pure optimistic speculation.
Ventolin also conveniently forgets the time that he said Coe had the best 400 speed of any elite miler on these boards.
Peer Mediator wrote:
Thirdly, it does not always prove to be the case that an athlete will automatically get faster over 400m from 19 to 20, especially if they are training for a mile. Ovett is a case in point.
Ryun ran several 440 relay legs in 67, some where he was behind and did not win, and the fastest he could manage was 47.0, which he achieved twice. That is evidence to suggest that he was no faster than he had been in 66, although doubtless Ventolin will have some excuse like he never ran them late in the season. Well, the same can be said of most middle distance runners.
Umm, did you miss the post where we have the SON OF JIM RYUN giving his dad's answer to this very question.
Ventolin asked: Did he believe he was an all round faster runner for 400 to the mile in '66 or '67 ?
Drew Ryun: Ventolin-dad said definitely 1967. He said, "It was an unbelievable year."
new englander wrote:
Peer Mediator wrote:Thirdly, it does not always prove to be the case that an athlete will automatically get faster over 400m from 19 to 20, especially if they are training for a mile. Ovett is a case in point.
Ryun ran several 440 relay legs in 67, some where he was behind and did not win, and the fastest he could manage was 47.0, which he achieved twice. That is evidence to suggest that he was no faster than he had been in 66, although doubtless Ventolin will have some excuse like he never ran them late in the season. Well, the same can be said of most middle distance runners.
Umm, did you miss the post where we have the SON OF JIM RYUN giving his dad's answer to this very question.
Ventolin asked: Did he believe he was an all round faster runner for 400 to the mile in '66 or '67 ?
Drew Ryun: Ventolin-dad said definitely 1967. He said, "It was an unbelievable year."
Yes I did read it. For a start the question was rather broad and was about a range of distances.
No disrespect to his son, but saying he was faster in 67 forty+ years later doesn't make it so, even if Ryun snr said it. The evidence statistically doesn't support that fact. I'm not even saying that I don't think he was faster. I'm just saying it isn't certain and there is no actual evidence to support it as fact, as Ventolin does, and it is a complete stab in the dark to take a 440yd relay split from the previous year to give as a fact, a time 2 sec faster, the following year. I'm only doing exactly what Ventolin does, but without the abuse.
When faced with the facts that Ryun only ran a 47.0 relay in early 67, Ventolin can claim Ryun would have been faster later on in the season of 67 and would have run faster at 400 or 800 based on no evidence whatsoever. He states it as fact.
In the same vein, Coe has said that he could have run faster over 800 later in 81 than he did in June, and Ventolin dismisses it because he didn't happen to run any super fast races late in the season.
You can't have it both ways. The guy is a hypocrite. He can't dismiss one thing due to lack of evidence and then purport another as a fact with even less evidence.
I personally don't doubt Ryun could have broken the 880 yd world record in 67, but I do not think anyone can claim he could have run 45.0, 1:39.9, 3:24 & 3:41 based primarily on a hand timed relay of 46.9 the previous year and of which there is no film (as far as we know) to watch it. We already know that there are lots of mistakes made for split times from those period.
For example, it was stated for years (and even in the IAAF books) that Ryun's last 440 in his 2nd mile WR was 52.5. Then a copy of the race appears on Youtube a few years back, and it is clear that it was actually 53.7! That's a big difference.
Ventolin stated categorically last year that Ryun's last lap in Dusseldorf was 49.8. He then had to (well, he didn't because he can never accept that he is wrong) eat humble pie when Said88 got a copy of the race and timed it as 50.6. Amazing yes, but a big difference to his original claim.
These nonsensical times are all based on a great deal of wishful thinking, supposition and a lot of massaging numbers.
Ryun might have just meant a tiny amount faster over 400. Why does it have to huge chunks of time off every distance?
SMJO wrote:
Ryun might have just meant a tiny amount faster over 400. Why does it have to huge chunks of time off every distance?
Exactly. I'm sure he's not talking 4+ seconds over 800 and 10 secs over 1 mile as Venty claims.
Peer Mediator wrote:
new englander wrote:Umm, did you miss the post where we have the SON OF JIM RYUN giving his dad's answer to this very question.
Ventolin asked: Did he believe he was an all round faster runner for 400 to the mile in '66 or '67 ?
Drew Ryun: Ventolin-dad said definitely 1967. He said, "It was an unbelievable year."
Yes I did read it. For a start the question was rather broad and was about a range of distances.
No disrespect to his son, but saying he was faster in 67 forty+ years later doesn't make it so, even if Ryun snr said it. The evidence statistically doesn't support that fact. I'm not even saying that I don't think he was faster. I'm just saying it isn't certain and there is no actual evidence to support it as fact, as Ventolin does, and it is a complete stab in the dark to take a 440yd relay split from the previous year to give as a fact, a time 2 sec faster, the following year. I'm only doing exactly what Ventolin does, but without the abuse.
When faced with the facts that Ryun only ran a 47.0 relay in early 67, Ventolin can claim Ryun would have been faster later on in the season of 67 and would have run faster at 400 or 800 based on no evidence whatsoever. He states it as fact.
In the same vein, Coe has said that he could have run faster over 800 later in 81 than he did in June, and Ventolin dismisses it because he didn't happen to run any super fast races late in the season.
You can't have it both ways. The guy is a hypocrite. He can't dismiss one thing due to lack of evidence and then purport another as a fact with even less evidence.
I personally don't doubt Ryun could have broken the 880 yd world record in 67, but I do not think anyone can claim he could have run 45.0, 1:39.9, 3:24 & 3:41 based primarily on a hand timed relay of 46.9 the previous year and of which there is no film (as far as we know) to watch it. We already know that there are lots of mistakes made for split times from those period.
For example, it was stated for years (and even in the IAAF books) that Ryun's last 440 in his 2nd mile WR was 52.5. Then a copy of the race appears on Youtube a few years back, and it is clear that it was actually 53.7! That's a big difference.
Ventolin stated categorically last year that Ryun's last lap in Dusseldorf was 49.8. He then had to (well, he didn't because he can never accept that he is wrong) eat humble pie when Said88 got a copy of the race and timed it as 50.6. Amazing yes, but a big difference to his original claim.
These nonsensical times are all based on a great deal of wishful thinking, supposition and a lot of massaging numbers.
1: Jim Ryun himself said he was all around faster from 400-mile in 1967. That is from the horse's mouth. That is good enough for me.
2: There is a difference between the Coe & Ryun example you brought up. Ryun was running his best in the summer. He was running faster. He wasn't running serious 400s though. Coe on the other hand ran 800s many more times after his world record that year and none of them were anywhere close to his 1:41.73.
3: Ventolin didn't "state categorically" anything. He gave a published first hand account from a german reporter who was a former olympian. Then Said88 acquired the race and tells us that the last lap was 50.5 (not 50.6 as you said). He also hasn't posted the video and I doubt he ever will. So until someone does, then we can't be sure one way or another.
Peer Mediator wrote:
SMJO wrote:Ryun might have just meant a tiny amount faster over 400. Why does it have to huge chunks of time off every distance?
Exactly. I'm sure he's not talking 4+ seconds over 800 and 10 secs over 1 mile as Venty claims.
Ventolin has never said he was 4+ seconds better over 800 and 10 seconds better over the mile from '66 -> '67.
Sure he has. He decided that if the Ryun of '67 was moved into the future and ran on a modern track with rabbits, he woulda run 1:39 and 3:24.
He has stated this dozens of times.
SMJO wrote:
Sure he has. He decided that if the Ryun of '67 was moved into the future and ran on a modern track with rabbits, he woulda run 1:39 and 3:24.
He has stated this dozens of times.
...And what has Ventolin said he was capable of in '66?
new englander wrote:
1: Jim Ryun himself said he was all around faster from 400-mile in 1967. That is from the horse's mouth. That is good enough for me.
2: There is a difference between the Coe & Ryun example you brought up. Ryun was running his best in the summer. He was running faster. He wasn't running serious 400s though. Coe on the other hand ran 800s many more times after his world record that year and none of them were anywhere close to his 1:41.73.
3: Ventolin didn't "state categorically" anything. He gave a published first hand account from a german reporter who was a former olympian. Then Said88 acquired the race and tells us that the last lap was 50.5 (not 50.6 as you said). He also hasn't posted the video and I doubt he ever will. So until someone does, then we can't be sure one way or another.
1. How many more names are you going to post under, Ventolin? Only such an ego would write with such reverence about himself.
2. Jim Ryun, via his son, via this site said he was faster in 67 to 66, but he didn't specify how much faster per event.
3. There is no difference between the examples I brought up re Ryun and Coe. You must be somewhat obtuse if you cannot see the contradiction.
From May until the end of the summer in 1967, Ryun ran 4 880yd races, his fastest time being 1:47.2. He ran 2 440yds in the same time frame and his fastest was 47.0. He improved his Mile WR by 0.1 and broke the 1500m WR.
But, based on a 1:47.2 you claim he could have run 1:39. You say he was faster in the summer, but the evidence is only over a mile and 1500. There is nothing below this distance to support him being faster over 400m, and you know it.
Coe was faster over 1000m, 1500m and 1 Mile as the summer progressed in 1981, setting 3 World records. He had no cause to further break the 800 as he already had it and was 1.7sec faster than anyone else in history.
For the rest of that season he ran 800s to win, but incidentally ran faster than 1:47.2 (Ryun's season best) 7 times after his WR in June, including a 1:44.5 en route to a 1000m WR that lasted 18 years. A 2:12 1k is a lot closer to 800 and 400 than Ryun's 1500pb. So just to spell it out, you are using a best of 1:47.2 from Ryun in 67 as evidence he could run 1:39, but the fact Coe ran a 1:44.5 is no evidence of anything!? That is just nonsense.
So the suggestion that Coe wasn't running fast later in the summer is rubbish.
4. You take what people say that supports what you want to believe as gospel, yet dismiss any first hand quotes that are made which contradict you. Deanouk has stated on here that Coe told him he could have run 1:41.2 later in 81 and 1:41.0 on a mondo track of today. That is no real stretch of the imagination as he actually ran 1:41.7 running wide on a bend. You ridicule an athlete himself (who you clearly can't stand for your own reasons) who suggests he could have run just 0.5 sec faster, yet abuse and offend anyone who questions your claim that Ryun could have run 4.4secs faster than he actually ever did (and that was the season before!), and over 7 secs faster than he did that season, over the same distance. The same applies for 1500 and the mile. Coe has said he should have run 3:28.0 and a 3:44 mile, Ryun has never claimed he could have run 3:24 or 3:41.
5. Ventolin DID state categorically on these boards that the German account was the most reliable source of the Dusseldorf race, and you abused and ridiculed various other posters who questioned it. When it was found to be wrong, you didn't even have the ba**s to apologise or admit you were wrong.
The same with Carl Lewis's non altitude LJ record, the length of the World X Country course, etc, etc.
I will take Said88's word over yours and your aliases any time.