you forgot to subtract the time his feet spent on the ground!
you forgot to subtract the time his feet spent on the ground!
I think that treadmills are great training devices. Galen and Mo do a lot of their easy miles on treadmills. I've even seen a video of Alberto having Galen do a 4-mile tempo on a treadmill, and Alberto didn't make any mention of it being inferior to an outdoor tempo run.
There's no wind resistance on a treadmill .... So what? Wind resistance has a neutral effect in the long-term, since you expect to, on average, get as much wind aid as wind resistance on a route starting and ending at the same point. And yea, on a treadmill you don't have to round turns or dodge cracks in the road, but it's not like those are crucial things that need practiced.
For me it all comes down to factoring injury prevention into my plan to become a faster runner in the long term. Say that treadmill running only has 80% of the benefits of normal running. If treadmill running also reduces the chance of injury by 50%, then I think it's well worth it, as part of a long-term distance running plan, to do as much running on a treadmill as possible.
I've been doing the majority of my miles on a treadmill for the past year, and I've improved my 10k road race PR from 35:29 to 33:03 in that time. No injuries have sidelined me. I feel like treadmills work all my running-specific muscles without putting the stress on my skeletal system that road running does. I still run on a newly paved road when I want to time a tempo run, and I do my speedwork at the local high school track, but for the other 4 days of the week I run on the treadmill at the gym and my body feels great afterwards. I'm trying to get my 5k/10k to 14:59.99/30:59.99 and I'll continue to do most of my miles on a treadmill as long as I continue to improve. I know that a lot of running purists here will say that I'm not a real runner if I count treadmill "miles" as real miles. Whatever.
Super Jay Five wrote:
webfoot wrote:Bolt took 41 steps in his 9.58 WR 100m. 41 * .3 = 12.3 seconds. Hmmm, something doesn't add up.
Interesting. That means Bolt had a LONGER stride AND he made it QUICKER, two things that you would think are somewhat mutually exclusive. But I guess he just has so much more power than anyone else so he can do it.
This is NOT the same as "strides per second"; which is the normal terminology for speed/cadence (as opposed to length of stride). World-class sprinters (Bolt) are going at 4.5-5 strides per sec, which is basically fixed (although carrying that for the whole race is another matter, and is what training is for, amongst other things). This, in part, is what separates the runner from the sprinter - not being blessed with those genes I can't run that fast (turnover/cadence). Improvement in sprinting comes from strength (in various forms)to be able to sustain that speed over a full race distance, and also to increase stride-length (drills and other methods help with this development) at the same cadence - cover more ground at the same "speed". Not sure what the .3 is referring to, although maybe for distance running it is similar, although .30 and .39 are not the same (there must be a range as I doubt that EVERYONE is exactly .30).
400metersoffseason wrote:
In addition to the air resistance I'm convinced the mechanics of running on a treadmill are slightly different. Basically you can cheat the treadmill by bouncing excessively. Contrary to what an above poster said, the time spent in the air does vary among runners. If you have more vertical motion, it will take you slightly longer to back fall down onto your other foot. It's not going to be a huge difference, but it's actually bad running form, as the goal is to go forward, not up.
You poor soul
jamin wrote:
There's no wind resistance on a treadmill .... So what? Wind resistance has a neutral effect in the long-term, since you expect to, on average, get as much wind aid as wind resistance on a route starting and ending at the same point.
Wow.
Then don't run on a treadmill.
jamin wrote:
There's no wind resistance on a treadmill .... So what? Wind resistance has a neutral effect in the long-term, since you expect to, on average, get as much wind aid as wind resistance on a route starting and ending at the same point.
This could not be more wrong. Even if running with wind helped you as much as running against wind hurt you (it doesn't), you are still ignoring the speed of your body. If it's a completely calm day, you still have a 10mph (or however fast you're running) breeze in your face at all times when you run on the ground.
luv2run wrote:
But according a physicist friend of mine if you run on a treadmill then you do no work since you have not displaced yourself.
very shallow analysis on your friend's part, nearly ignorant in fact
the 'work' is keeping your body from being moved backward
if you don't 'work' on the treadmill, the belt moves your body and throws you off the back
What is comes down to for me is the fact that when you're running outside, you are propelling and accellerating the entire mass of your body. When you are running on a treadmill, your feet are being dragged backwards, and you aren't moving anywhere. You get more out of running outside.
jamin wrote:
There's no wind resistance on a treadmill .... So what? Wind resistance has a neutral effect in the long-term, since you expect to, on average, get as much wind aid as wind resistance on a route starting and ending at the same point.
HopeYouWantToJamWithMe2 wrote:
Wow.
+1. How can people really think these things?!?!
Duh. wrote:
What is comes down to for me is the fact that when you're running outside, you are propelling and accellerating the entire mass of your body. When you are running on a treadmill, your feet are being dragged backwards, and you aren't moving anywhere. You get more out of running outside.
Read this thread and take a physics class. Your belief makes no sense.
Duh. wrote:
What is comes down to for me is the fact that when you're running outside, you are propelling and accellerating the entire mass of your body. When you are running on a treadmill, your feet are being dragged backwards, and you aren't moving anywhere. You get more out of running outside.
So when you land on the treadmill you are being "dragged" backwards. If you aren't propelling the entire mass of your body forwards on a treadmill, how do you land with your foot back at the front of the belt on your next stride? You can't just do high knees in place on a treadmill on expect to stay stationary. You'll go backwards with the belt.
Clam Evans wrote:This could not be more wrong. Even if running with wind helped you as much as running against wind hurt you (it doesn't), you are still ignoring the speed of your body. If it's a completely calm day, you still have a 10mph (or however fast you're running) breeze in your face at all times when you run on the ground.
You have to have a wind at least equal to the speed of the treadmill or you won't generate any lift for the wings. Unless it's a Harrier jump jet and can jump of off the treadmill.
What fascinates me is that the 'ill' part of the word 'treadmill' appears green against the yellow background.
High School Physics wrote:
Clam Evans wrote:This could not be more wrong. Even if running with wind helped you as much as running against wind hurt you (it doesn't), you are still ignoring the speed of your body. If it's a completely calm day, you still have a 10mph (or however fast you're running) breeze in your face at all times when you run on the ground.You have to have a wind at least equal to the speed of the treadmill or you won't generate any lift for the wings. Unless it's a Harrier jump jet and can jump of off the treadmill.
I disagree. If the treadmill is moving 1000mph and the plane is stationary (viewed from outside the treadmill), but the wind is blowing 200-600mph, the plane will still take off.
Clam Evans wrote:I disagree. If the treadmill is moving 1000mph and the plane is stationary (viewed from outside the treadmill), but the wind is blowing 200-600mph, the plane will still take off.
Except the treadmill speed is greater than the wind speed. You would need to reverse that. Also, in the real world friction would prevent flight. The jet would only fly in a vacuum.
Duh. wrote:
What is comes down to for me is the fact that when you're running outside, you are propelling and accellerating the entire mass of your body. When you are running on a treadmill, your feet are being dragged backwards, and you aren't moving anywhere. You get more out of running outside.
you are blatantly oblivious to some very simple physics concepts
Duh. wrote:
What is comes down to for me is the fact that when you're running outside, you are propelling and accellerating the entire mass of your body. When you are running on a treadmill, your feet are being dragged backwards, and you aren't moving anywhere. You get more out of running outside.
Acceleration is the same on the treadmill and outdoors. If you don't believe me, calculate it. Acceleration is change in velocity. When you're running your evenly paced 10 minute miles outdoors, your only acceleration is a slight bounce and down as you would on a treadmill, and when you start/end your walk breaks.
Has anyone here ever actually run faster for any distance on a treadmill than on solid ground?