Somebody needs to foster some ostrich chicks with an eagle and see if those wing genes can be switched on by upbringing.
Somebody needs to foster some ostrich chicks with an eagle and see if those wing genes can be switched on by upbringing.
SMJO wrote:
Somebody needs to foster some ostrich chicks with an eagle and see if those wing genes can be switched on by upbringing.
Put a little more effort into your trolling. This is too obvious.
Flagpole wrote:
Good grief.
Under the circumstances, that is a very appropriate comment.
How many years have you been regular contributor to the LRC message boards? You profess to have computer-related expertise, but you still butcher the quote system every time you use it! It isn't rocket science, and your lazy method makes it a bit problematic trying to pick out what you actually said from amongst the nested syntax.
Good grief, indeed.
OK someone needs to get some Penguins to raise an Ostrich and see if they can get those underwater flying genes switched on.
proved it could happen wrote:
I understand some people are predisposed to be better at some things than others so it is really about finding what you have the capability to be the best at.
You do realise that when you say 'predisposed' what you're actually saying is 'born with a favourable genetic make-up', yep?
jono wrote:
jsjsj wrote:But they are not all training the same way. And how do you know she has the genes?
It's not wishful thinking at all. The article says that Budd has been training her daughter since she was little. You and your genes are wishful thinking.
I agree. Flagpole has a way of reducing arguments to basic collective wisdom i.e. BS.
It is much more likely that Zola is a very good coach and enabler of her daughter's ability. That's her real genetic advantage.
Yeah, I had a great coach in HS, that must be why I was able to run 4:02 and 8:48 in HS.
I swear you guys set new records every day for stupidity.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Salazar might not turn me into a world-class runner. But what if he adopted a 5-year-old orphan? I'd be surprised to see the kid not grow up to be an elite.
Paul Tergat didn't start running until the age of 20 and he would have ruined Galen Rupp's day in his prime.
How about Elijah Lagat? Started running at 27 to lose weight, won several big city marathons.
Or consider Erin Sullivan - started running junior year of high school and won Footlocker the same year, never did that much after high school.
And if he could get a random 5 year old orphan to be elite, you'd think he'd at least be able to get a little more out of some of his runners.
Bad Wigins:
Salazar might not turn me into a world-class runner. But what if he adopted a 5-year-old orphan? I'd be surprised to see the kid not grow up to be an elite.
Surely, you do not believe that is likely?! Why is the WR for females runners not fast enough to beat hundreds of male runners.....answer: genetics. Yea, the reason is genetic differences. And within like (males) groups there is great variation....due to genetic differences.
At the age of 27, Niels Bohr married Margrethe Norlund on August 1, 1912. The two had a loving and long lasting marriage. During their marriage, Niels and Margrethe had six sons, two of which, Harald and Christian, died in early childhood. Harald died of childhood illness and Christian died of drowning after becoming overboard on a family sailing excursion.
The four children that did survive made themselves successful careers for themselves. Hans Henrik Bohr became a renowned doctor, Erik Bohr became a chemical engineer, Ernest Bohr became a Lawyer, and Aage Bohr followed in his father's footsteps and became a Ph.D. theoretical physicist. Aage went on to become the director of the Institute of Theoretical Physics(later the Niels Bohr Institute for Theoretical Physics) and was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for working on finding the asymmetrical shape of atomic nuclei in 1975.
Genetics seems to rule, but it was probably a very intellectually healthy environment for the (surviving) children, too.
Does anyone know of another case of a father and his son both winning the Nobel Prize?
Does anyone know if the offspring of Yobes and Lisa Ondieki are runners? I would think they might have some talent.
How about Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery?
I don't know if this was mentioned in the thread, but Zola's daughter, in this race, finished behind some college girl with a 1500 PR of 4:39 (only worth 5:02 mile).
I know that Zola's daughter was sick and everything, but this is very much slower than her mother at the same age. Her mother was incredible, this is just a decent HS performance. Nothing more...
Therefore, I don't really understand all this talk about genetics...
Now, had she run 2 minutes faster than she did... Maybe we could talk about genetics...
Until then...
Frenulum wrote:
So you are saying if Salazar adopted a 5-year old Ryan Whiting he would turn out to be an elite distance runner? Not likely.
I'm saying pick any also-ran from competitive racing, go back in time to when they were 5, get Salazar or any other elite coach to train them for the next 10 years, and you'd be nuts to bet against them crushing the competition as the next teen phenom.
People that go on about the genetics of elites aren't saying they're elite just because they're not big and fat. Not that Whiting would necessarily grow that big if he were coached as a runner for 10 years. They're talking about some je ne sais quois that makes elites stand out even from people with similar build and physiology. I say that quois is epigenetics, not genetics.
Zola's kids also had this thing called a "father" who probably watered down the genes that Zola passed on.
Wigins saying that training a 5 year old Salazar style will produce champions fails to account for the fact that the best kids win early competitions with no training.
I was fanatical about running as a kid and did everything I could to emulate past champions and fast animals and I absolutely sucked and got crushed by Arcade dwelling junk food eaters who were basically sedentary.
caesarsghost wrote:
Running with a nasty cold, Zola Budd's daughter lops nearly two minutes off a course record, even though the course had recently changed to become more challenging. She's a junior at Carolina Forest high school in Myrtle Beach.
Yes, the ability to run fast is 100% genetic (as mom Zola is also proving by dominating women half her age).
And while I'm on the subject of Zola, no doubt in my mind she was genetically the greatest. She was a bit sensitive, couldn't really run out the rest of the race after tripping with Mary Decker Slaney and let the incident sour her on racing, but she was really untouchable.
The daughter is Lisa Pieterse. Google her and you'll see her mom's face, her mom's stride, her mom's way of holding her arm's while running, and her mom's outdated habit of wearing a watch and looking at it during races. Also a bunch of articles about her breaking high school records (she seems to do it every meet).
http://www.myhorrynews.com/sports/high_school/cross_country/article_df415712-2075-11e3-aaa0-0019bb30f31a.html
Is 18:35 really that fast for a high school age girl? Aren't there a few girls in just about every state who can run that pace for a 5k?
SMJO wrote:
Zola's kids also had this thing called a "father" who probably watered down the genes that Zola passed on.
Wigins saying that training a 5 year old Salazar style will produce champions fails to account for the fact that the best kids win early competitions with no training.
I was fanatical about running as a kid and did everything I could to emulate past champions and fast animals and I absolutely sucked and got crushed by Arcade dwelling junk food eaters who were basically sedentary.
1) what competitions? And what kids are not untrained?
Kids compete at soccer and basketball. In the rare kids' track meet, the soccer players predictably do well. Because they run a lot.
Of course teens who have played soccer their whole lives can win at track right away vs seniors who started as freshmen.
2) you were not coached by Salazar.
Bad Wigins wrote:
Flagpole wrote:Knowledge about running isn't the main thing. We can train and eat and sleep to be the best we can be, but the limit is ultimately governed by your inherent talent...genes. Lots of you for some reason don't want to believe that, and I'm not sure why that is. Don't a lot of you run a LOT and train pretty much the best way possible? Do you all think that somehow if you got into Salazar's group that you'd be world class runners?
If knowledge weren't the main thing, you wouldn't need coaches. Running fast is a skill.
But you misunderstand anyway. The main thing is development. The adult is not determined by the coding proteins but by what the child does. Environment determines what coding genes are switched on and off, and when. Most people have the right coding genes to be great athletes, but if they're not on at the right time while they're developing, once they're adults it's too late. Zola Budd's daughter was probably running, training effectively and adapting physically from a very early age, whereas most runners don't start until high school.
Salazar might not turn me into a world-class runner. But what if he adopted a 5-year-old orphan? I'd be surprised to see the kid not grow up to be an elite.
Bad Wigins, you don't have a clue. You usually appear to have some notion of what you're talking about, but you're WAY over your head here. You are embarrassing yourself. It is actually sad.
The untrained kids are the city kids who hardly moved and avoided joining in any soccer or basketball games.
Then on track and field day(what school doesn't have this?) they would demolish us sports crazy farm kids.
They weren't coached by Salazar either.
But really, you're in over your head here. Stop.
Bad Wigins wrote:
SMJO wrote:Zola's kids also had this thing called a "father" who probably watered down the genes that Zola passed on.
Wigins saying that training a 5 year old Salazar style will produce champions fails to account for the fact that the best kids win early competitions with no training.
I was fanatical about running as a kid and did everything I could to emulate past champions and fast animals and I absolutely sucked and got crushed by Arcade dwelling junk food eaters who were basically sedentary.
1) what competitions? And what kids are not untrained?
Kids compete at soccer and basketball. In the rare kids' track meet, the soccer players predictably do well. Because they run a lot.
Of course teens who have played soccer their whole lives can win at track right away vs seniors who started as freshmen.
2) you were not coached by Salazar.
Keep going Wigins, I'm enjoying the ass-beating you have been taking this entire thread.
Double Dog wrote:
Is 18:35 really that fast for a high school age girl? Aren't there a few girls in just about every state who can run that pace for a 5k?
Yes they can...more than a few even, but this was a COURSE record by "almost 2 minutes". That says to me that perhaps the course was super hard. BUT, I suppose it could be a course where only horrible teams run.
ksu wrote:
jono wrote:Why don't most people consider personality as the most important genetic trait in these discussions? How much you want something is surely a genetic trait?
Why is that surely a genetic trait?
Twins brought up separately often have remarkable similarities in personality.