The 1500 and 5000 WRs follow a somewhat similar pattern. No one is really breaking 3:30/12:45 anymore
The 1500 and 5000 WRs follow a somewhat similar pattern. No one is really breaking 3:30/12:45 anymore
cleancleanmrclean wrote:
The 1500 and 5000 WRs follow a somewhat similar pattern. No one is really breaking 3:30/12:45 anymore
Isn't that like saying, "no one's break 18 meters in the triple jump anymore." Only three men have ever broken 12:45. And those three are really a class apart.
its ridiculous to believe performances weren't doped....
at the same time cyclists we're all using..
and athletics performances went through the roof...
i mean 20 seconds off 5000m in quicktime
The massive doping between 1995-2006 (interrupted for a short time by the introduction of the first EPO test in 2000) is not a matter of discussion. It is simply a fact. Considering what an advantage EPO gives to doped athletes, it is unimaginable that clean runners could compete with dopers.For example, in the 1500 m the times of the global elite improved by ca. 2.5 sec. within mere 3 years (1994-97). In the 5000 m, runners suddenly ran 8-12 sec. faster over the same period of time. Only in the 800 m the improvement was not so dramatic, about 0.7 sec., so I would assume that it was possible for a clean half-miler to succeed against Epopketer, Epobungei et al.
coach d. wrote:
Viren probably could have run significantly faster than his PB of 27;38.
He is on record as saying he was in 27;20 shape in Munich.
Viren was blood doping.
Sport physiologist wrote:
The massive doping between 1995-2006 (interrupted for a short time by the introduction of the first EPO test in 2000) is not a matter of discussion. It is simply a fact. Considering what an advantage EPO gives to doped athletes, it is unimaginable that clean runners could compete with dopers.For example, in the 1500 m the times of the global elite improved by ca. 2.5 sec. within mere 3 years (1994-97). In the 5000 m, runners suddenly ran 8-12 sec. faster over the same period of time. Only in the 800 m the improvement was not so dramatic, about 0.7 sec., so I would assume that it was possible for a clean half-miler to succeed against Epopketer, Epobungei et al.
Do you also credit drugs with drop in world record marks in the late 1940s and 1950s?
practically everyone in the peleton was on epo
why would track athletes be clean during that time?
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Do you also credit drugs with drop in world record marks in the late 1940s and 1950s?
Attention Mr. Jeff "I don't believe in drugs" Wigand
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3078642.stmYour hero is FRAUD
Anyone with half a brain knows that drops in the late '40 and '50s were due to people training more seriously. Pre WWII training was not serious.
The world record becomes more difficult to break as it improves and should be broken less as time goes on.
You apparently do not know this.
I repeat
Your hero is a FRAUD
Now please, post your usual drivel about mishandled tests
hahahahahahahaha
just sayin wrote:
practically everyone in the peleton was on epo
why would track athletes be clean during that time?
We all know the Easter Bloc athletes benefited from their programs. Why wouldn't Frank Shorter have adopted a similar program? There was no out of competition testing, he could have used steroids to recover quicker in training and could have blood doped just as the Finns.
BLAST FROM THE PAST wrote:
Anyone with half a brain knows that drops in the late '40 and '50s were due to people training more seriously. Pre WWII training was not serious.
You're sure it wasn't drugs? Olympic Champions like Paavo Nurmi, Jack Lovelock and Sohn Kee Chung didn't train seriously?
Blast from the Past: "Attention Mr. Jeff "I don't believe in drugs" Wigand
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/3078642.stm
Your hero is FRAUD
Anyone with half a brain knows that drops in the late '40 and '50s were due to people training more seriously."
Come on now, Blast--Wigand surely has half a brain.
Bekele and Geb should be outted for the frauds they are!
After reading this entire thread. It seems like most people are convinced that pretty much all the africans from the 1990s (except europeans) were dirty and all europeans (40's-50's) were 100% clean? So what does this make Rupp?
jjjjjjjjj wrote:
coach d. wrote:Viren probably could have run significantly faster than his PB of 27;38.
He is on record as saying he was in 27;20 shape in Munich.
Viren was blood doping.
But an interesting thing is that blood transfusions didn't influence the development of times at all. The curve from 70's is practically linear in all distances.
Sport physiologist wrote:
jjjjjjjjj wrote:Viren was blood doping.
But an interesting thing is that blood transfusions didn't influence the development of times at all. The curve from 70's is practically linear in all distances.
What does this have to do with anything? He still blood doped. Hence....he cheated guys out of medals.Perhaps that's the reason why he never really gave the World Records a really good go. Hell, he probably was close to sub-27:00 than most people realize.
You are all going wrong about doping analysis.
You are search in the wrong side of the problem
Doping isn´t an issue of WRs.
Most doping is not take to break WR´s. Besides only a shot minority of runners - an top elite - can dream of brea WR´s WITH OR WITHOUT DOPING.
The runners do take doping for some main reasons:
1/ to win competitions, and best place classification in strategic runs.
2/to be able to sustain high shape condition when they timed/date a important competition and they are out of shape.
3/To help best training recovery that able them best performances when they enter in future competitions they are clean then
4/Most of the competitions with doping usage aren´t of chrono importance, like cross country and 10k road runs that make money.
.What´s importnat is to get the best place possible, not chrono records. Of course that the fast you are at chrono record the better chances yiu got to get a better classification, but Wr´s or historic chrono performances are out of the goal in that case. See the case of Groumri, he rarely did win one marathon and still distant from the world record, but despite that he did good marathon results and get a lot of money, and later we knew he was on EPO.
PLEASE, STOP YOUR inconsequent doing analysis based on WR´s progress mostly. While you do that you lost the essence of doping. Only one silly runner takes doping to beat the WR.
To think about doping from the WR progression is to give some strong argument to Renato Canova to the spread use of drugs.
For example. Renato Canova knows very well that Lasse Viren did Wr´s with doping transfusion - at that time not yet illegal. therefore at that period blood transfusion did help many runners.
Renato knows as well that Jos Hermans - the K. Bekele and Gebre manager - among other top runners - when he was runner - that he did beat the hour WR - he used to take all king of drugs. Hermans coach G. Tebroke beat 5000m and 10000m Hermans records with the same drugs that Hermans used to take. Tebroke died soon by drug take. It´s true that Hermans diod train 3 times a day 300kilos per week. But the main reaason for the performances he did achieve - a not talented runner as Renato says - is because he did use amphetamines and other kind of drugs.
Someone once said Hermans had a chem lab in his basement... The sport is corrupt with him & his ilk dabbling with pharma/E. Africans.
António Cabral wrote:
You are all going wrong about doping analysis.
You are search in the wrong side of the problem
Doping isn´t an issue of WRs.
Most doping is not take to break WR´s. Besides only a shot minority of runners - an top elite - can dream of brea WR´s WITH OR WITHOUT DOPING.
The runners do take doping for some main reasons:
1/ to win competitions, and best place classification in strategic runs.
2/to be able to sustain high shape condition when they timed/date a important competition and they are out of shape.
3/To help best training recovery that able them best performances when they enter in future competitions they are clean then
4/Most of the competitions with doping usage aren´t of chrono importance, like cross country and 10k road runs that make money.
.What´s importnat is to get the best place possible, not chrono records. Of course that the fast you are at chrono record the better chances yiu got to get a better classification, but Wr´s or historic chrono performances are out of the goal in that case. See the case of Groumri, he rarely did win one marathon and still distant from the world record, but despite that he did good marathon results and get a lot of money, and later we knew he was on EPO.
PLEASE, STOP YOUR inconsequent doing analysis based on WR´s progress mostly. While you do that you lost the essence of doping. Only one silly runner takes doping to beat the WR.
To think about doping from the WR progression is to give some strong argument to Renato Canova to the spread use of drugs.
For example. Renato Canova knows very well that Lasse Viren did Wr´s with doping transfusion - at that time not yet illegal. therefore at that period blood transfusion did help many runners.
Renato knows as well that Jos Hermans - the K. Bekele and Gebre manager - among other top runners - when he was runner - that he did beat the hour WR - he used to take all king of drugs. Hermans coach G. Tebroke beat 5000m and 10000m Hermans records with the same drugs that Hermans used to take. Tebroke died soon by drug take. It´s true that Hermans diod train 3 times a day 300kilos per week. But the main reaason for the performances he did achieve - a not talented runner as Renato says - is because he did use amphetamines and other kind of drugs.
Coach Cabral is correct--people don't dope for the sake of achieving a world record: they cheat for the sake of competing well and earning a better living (fame figures in, surely, as well). However, as a consequence of doping, it makes sense that not just the world record, but the best times in distance events would show its effect. I mention this in the light of another thread about cycling, concerning soon to be released (if not already released) retested blood work from the 1990s, which points to the fact that almost everyone in cycling was doping. One might ask, and a few posters on this thread have, how could this not have been going on in long distance running? If one looks at the top twenty times ever in the men's 10000 meters, nineteen of them were run between 1996 and 2006. That is, Bekele (2011) is the only man (the world record holder, uncoincidentally) to have run a time outside that time-frame in the top twenty. One can draw one's own conclusions.
Simply being a world-class athlete surely points towards you being a doper and therefore a fraud, undeserving of anything but the most severe bullying. Surely all of them must be pathologically inclined to dope? Or perhaps striving towards being a world-class athlete is in itself pathological, and that so immersed in this that we're just incapable of realizing it?
Write that out again without mistakes. It doesn't make sense.