Discussion of Deadspin's Article: The Sexual Harassment Claims That Brought Down Toledo’s XC Coach

////????//// wrote:

Outsider perspective:

A) This coach clearly looks like a pedophile

0/10 (BLATANT)

If you think a grown man wanting to have sex with college age women is a "pedophile" then I dont think you know what that word means.

What is up with Track coaches being creeps to their girls teams. When I was in college the guy would always get border line touchy feely and try to talk to them on FB being a 50 year old man. The guy that replaced him was just as bad.

My take is the coach was a manipulative creep, but the girl looks like she lead him on in text messages and was an enabler. I'm glad he got outed and yes his necklace made him look like a poof.

And to everyone saying he was a great coach and that should give him some slack. Sandusky won a National Championship.

Brojos -- is there a database or a living blog anywhere in the running community that keeps track of sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, sexual assault, etc. claims and charges against high school/collegiate track/xc coaches? It would seem to be a valuable tool for the running community (and larger athletic communities) to have a living, continuously updating database/blog that covered that last 20-30 years with new entries added as they come up for a number of reasons:

--AWARENESS: the frequency/magnitude of the problem would be more apparent to prospective collegiate runners, parents of runners, current runners, coaches, athletic directors, and university presidents if that type of longitudinal data were aggregated in a clear and concise format

-- TRAINING: sexual harassment training could be made required and more relevant for all incoming collegiate runners and their parents, as well as track/xc staff; aggregated clear and concise data would really make audience of the training take note

-- POLICIES: sexual harassment policies could be reviewed/updated based on the information from such a living database/blog; lessons learned from past mishandlings could help shape positive change wrt future sexual harassment claims. Too often we've seen sexual harassment/assaults occur on college campuses between a coach and an athlete, or between an athlete and a student and the university administration totally bungle the response, even though it's a recurring occurrence over the years.

Just a thought, but if this type of database/blog doesn't exist, it might be a worthwhile endeavor for the LetsRun staff or an interested party in the LetsRun community to spearhead the compiling of a comprehensive list, and then keep that database/blog as a permanent link on the LetsRun homepage with updates occurring as needed. In addition to specifics of the who/what/when/where of each incident, there could be a lessons learned section, a recommended reading section for incoming collegiate runners and their parents, a recommended lesson plan for coaches to use with their athletes, a recommended monitoring checklist for ADs to use with their coaches, etc.

Because there is general awareness amongst some of how big of a problem inappropriate sexual behavior is in the high school/collegiate athletic realm, coupled with the general unawareness by many others, coupled with the ongoing repetitiveness of the infractions, it seems like being proactive for future athletes/parents/coaches would be a constructive approach to minimize future occurrences.

I can't and won't pretend to have any special knowledge of the situation, but my ex girlfriend ran in the MAC and spoke often of the discomfort the girls on her team felt around the Toledo coaches. Looking back I'd assume she meant Hadsell, though of course if his immature, inappropriate behavior was allowed to continue there must have also been some lack of boundaries and professionalism on his staff.

Really interesting, really sad stuff.

I'm astounded how many people are jumping on the Hadsell bandwagon. Though this being LetsRun, it could be one person (maybe kevin himself!) just making all of the "supportive" posts.

?lp?wr? wrote:

A serious question to the Hadsell/Vig type situations? What about a Volunteer Assistant coach who parties with the team and hooks up with one of the top female runners. He is basically our age and a big time runner. Is this different?

OK

Let's look at your scenario and your questions and see if we can answer it.

Is this different? That is the central question and the answer is Yes. yes , it is very different.

1. He is a volunteer Assistant. That means he has no power to make decisions regarding scholarship money.

2. He's unpaid, so he's not an employee of the university.

3. He's your age, so he's not even out of his peer group.

I would say that this guy is lurking on the edge of Creeptown, but he's not a full on creep- yet. If he wants to party with the guys and girls he should give up the title Asst. coach and just behave like the #1 runner on the team.

concerned parent... wrote:

Because there is general awareness amongst some of how big of a problem inappropriate sexual behavior is in the high school/collegiate athletic realm, coupled with the general unawareness by many others, coupled with the ongoing repetitiveness of the infractions, it seems like being proactive for future athletes/parents/coaches would be a constructive approach to minimize future occurrences.

In HS my coach was accused of having a relationship with one of our female runners (she was 18). It was a big freakin' deal. I'm about 99% positive he did. It made for a terrible feeling on the team. It never got beyond the rumor mill, but Im sure some parents heard about it. (I ran before cell phones and texting so back then everything was "he said she said.")

In college my first coach was fired for behaving like this Toledo dude. He was a good coach, but he was living out some extended college dream life or something. He drove drunk, bought us alcohol, he flirted with the ladies, ... It was his behavior at an overnight meet that eventually got him canned. He got drunk, and he didnt just step over the line, he f#cking Carl Lewised over the line.

So yeah, Im just one guy and Ive had two coaches that creeped on the gals. Im sure it's rampant throughout T&F.

I'd advise all parents to be vigilant.

Looks like he has a degree in journalism. This could get even more interesting.

"A native of Burlington, VT, Hadsell graduated with a bachelor's degree in education from Vermont in 1993 and later earned a bachelor's degree in journalism from Coastal Carolina in 1997."

http://www.utrockets.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=18000&ATCLID=206099360

I think the other sad thing about this all is shown by the (totally fair) posts pointing out that male coaches shouldn't be trusted around female athletes.

I mean, I get where that's coming from and there's obviously enough precedent to not be totally trusting, but what about a guy who is totally professional and just wants to coach athletes and help them be their best? Emotionally-stunted idiots like this Hadsell guy, who clearly has some real problems because, are creating a situation where honest, hardworking, mature young men wont' be trusted coaching young women (or college age kids in general). And that sucks.

I don't really get people like this. I'm a man and I can keep it my pants and do my job without creeping on and texting athletes. It's so incredibly pathetic and creepy. Plus why do guys his age want to get involved in HS/college girl drama? Girls like that are impossible emotionally -- why would any self-respecting older guy want to get involved with that?

Dude has some real problems.

My takeaway from all of this is that everyone at Univ. of Toledo including the coach has about a third-grade education.

I know it's texts and a message board, but good god most of this is hardly English.

I find the details of this story not all together interesting. He was a dude who slept with subordinates. Hmm, Bill Clinton, Paul Wolfowitz,this Zen teacher

www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/zen-buddhists-roiled-by-accusations-against-teacher.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

- the list is endless.

I'm more interested in the fact that Rojo reprimanded the mods. Can we get a bit more transparency on the moderation process? Are the mods paid? What principles do they generally follow? Is there a standard code between them or is each given a wide degree of judgment?

Rojo, on this thread, said, "We can't win. We allow it to stay up initially and we get slammed. So we try to moderate it and end up deleting stuff that was apparently true." Translated, letsrun gets criticized often for its message board and isn't quite sure what kind of message board they want or can reasonably achieve. Guys, I really think you should come up with a clear, public set of guidelines, one that's available to all posters. I think you should require username registration to post (this isn't a very high barrier to entry, but it's something). And I think you should instruct your moderators, in borderline cases, to opt for freedom of expression and content.

The internet is a messy place. I get it. Trolling is a real problem. There's a real tension between the two opposing impulses Rojo expressed above. But guys, stick up for free speech. You might get criticized. Principles are worth catching flak for. You run what is and can be a very vibrant discussion community. Interfere only in the most extreme of cases. Let it thrive on its own.

Similar situation for me, way back when. Coach basically went through the entire girls club team he coached before shacking up with the best runner on the university team he ended up coaching. He actively encourage drinking among his athletes. He organized pizza and beer/dance nights once in a while, usually on a week night. Many of us didn't really want to go but did anyway. I didn't feel forced to go. I didn't really feel that my career as a runner was going to be adversely affected if I didn't go. But there was some level of pressure there. It was sort of like you've got a good friend who wants your group to go and do something and it's sort of lame or bad timing or inconvenient for some reason, but you go along with it anyway to help the guy save face. Heck I was 19--I didn't know that it was inappropriate.

ArloTheHouseCat wrote:

In college my first coach was fired for behaving like this Toledo dude. He was a good coach, but he was living out some extended college dream life or something. He drove drunk, bought us alcohol, he flirted with the ladies, ... It was his behavior at an overnight meet that eventually got him canned. He got drunk, and he didnt just step over the line, he f#cking Carl Lewised over the line.

So yeah, Im just one guy and Ive had two coaches that creeped on the gals. Im sure it's rampant throughout T&F.

I'd advise all parents to be vigilant.

The Single Voice of Reason wrote:

I mean, I get where that's coming from and there's obviously enough precedent to not be totally trusting, but what about a guy who is totally professional and just wants to coach athletes and help them be their best?

Plus why do guys his age want to get involved in HS/college girl drama? Girls like that are impossible emotionally -- why would any self-respecting older guy want to get involved with that?

Dude has some real problems.

1. I'd say that's the norm, and ideal. We're not really talking about that situation. Nobody is saying ALL men are like Hadsell, but like I said, the parents should wonder why the girl is getting any text from her coach regarding anything other than running related.

2. Why? Have seen college girls? Especially college age female athletes! Also some folks thrive in dysfunctional drama. If there is none, they'll create it.

yeah, you hope that things like this dont hurt guys that are trying to give back and really have something to give to the sport. I'm just saying if I were a parent of a female runner at the first sign of creedom, I'd get her out of there.

The Single Voice of Reason wrote:I don't really get people like this. I'm a man and I can keep it my pants and do my job without creeping on and texting athletes. It's so incredibly pathetic and creepy. Plus why do guys his age want to get involved in HS/college girl drama? Girls like that are impossible emotionally -- why would any self-respecting older guy want to get involved with that?

Dude has some real problems.

Right, because you are one of the few properly socalized men who has a solid sense of morality, ethics and responsibility. Most men in this society (heck, the world as a whole) feel it is within their right to use and abuse women for their pleasure.

I am heartened that several young men on Hasdell's team recognized abuse was going on and attempted to stop it. That tells me that some socalization is going on.

ArloTheHouseCat wrote:

2. Why? Have seen college girls? Especially college age female athletes! Also some folks thrive in dysfunctional drama. If there is none, they'll create it.

As a fairly recent college graduate, I have indeed seen college aged female athletes. And yes, somehow I don't feel the need to aggressively pursue sexual relationships with all of them. Is it really so unusual for people to be mature enough not to try to screw anything near them that moves? Or, like, not to even want to? Just so, so pathetic.

Plus let's be honest -- if you've seen a lot of xc girls, especially these ones coaches like Hadsell are driving to anorexia, you'd realize that there are better places to look for 19 year old girls who seem somewhat healthy, if that's really your thing.

It's just sad, frankly.

A coach should obviously be there to support his/her athletes in improving as sportsmen/women, students, and adults. All someone like Hadsell's doing is stunting the emotional development of his athletes just like his own. He's creating a whole group of ridiculous, immature, petty people.

Again, it's just sad.

I am not aware of the facts in Hadsell's case, but it looks like he used very poor judgment. There have been any number of Svengali coaching arrangements between older male coaches and their charges over the years (indeed, the gossip here points to one involving this school's best ever runner), and frankly, they bother me as they don't help the sport.

I do agree with the point about teenage and college women being challenging. This is a just a reality. Women approach the world differently than mission oriented boys and men. This does not mean that a mature, dedicated male coach should refrain from coaching women because of a generalized fear of dysfunctional drama.

However, were I to coach young women, I would be hyper-careful in any personal dealings or issues with them.

I watched my daughter's high school coach - a great coach with state championships to his name, and found him very shrewd and responsible on this issue. His spouse, also an educator, coached with him. While she did not have nearly the coaching or athletic background he did, the arrangement worked wonderfully. She was the right touch on health and emotional issues and inculcated a lot of trust in parents - together - they inculcated even more trust. This is not to suggest that a male coach should always have a female coach with him. But given today's realities, I would employ a strategy every day to avoid any perception issues of impropriety and as necessary, kindly seek the assistance of a mature woman (perhaps on the training or medical staff) on health, body and social and behavioral issues. Leave no impression other than trying to do the right thing, and seek help before it becomes a problem.

This situation to me is a helpful warning to all coaches - see Coach Kearney at Texas, too. Yep, you've got to get talent, you've got to be good or even great, but you have to take maturity pills, so to speak, every single day.

I'm with you 100% but would also add that someone who is in coaching less for the experience of helping & guiding young athletes/people and more for the personal kick they seem to get from continuing an immature lifestyle really should never have considered coaching in the first place. Perhaps it's less about "taking maturity pills" than it is just about needing to find some other, more appropriate calling if you don't have what it takes to be an adult figure around younger people.

My coaches (I'm a guy but was close to some of the women's distance coaches during college as well) were wonderful, and I'd be totally shocked to find out anything like this, but there were other event/head coaches I had encounters with that, while most likely not involved in anything this shady, certainly were in it for some weird power trip/ego boost from being an authority figure -- NOT for the best interests of their athletes.

First I want to say I do have full knoweledge of the University of Toledo and its athletics for the last 7 years.It is an outstanding university and the athletes associated with cross country and track and field are an amazing intelligent group of kids.As for the resignation of Coach Hadsell.Yes he crossed the line.He was defineately to familiar and too close with his team.He was a big personality and yes he took middle of the road runners and turned a few of them into superstars.There is no denying his winning athletes and records over the last 15 years at Toledo.The girls he was accused of having relationships with over the years were not children.The latest a graduate student who had graduated over the summer. The incident with the drunk driving was fabricated.The team had a professional bus company and driver on the bus in New york...probably made up by some 14year old looking for a little 5 minutes of fame from posting on Lets Run. As for the validity of his victims claims.I read the texts and some are deleated and missing and it sounded like she was an interested party in their twosome.Why wouldn't she have exposed him sooner? She has had all summer to come forward...and would you give him a gift with a flirty note? Really?? I have to wonder if she was the victim she claims to be or if she had a plan. Why would the team support him and remark against her on these boards.Now would be the perfect time to line up against him.I just have a lot of doubts about the supposed "TRUTH".If he was using his power as a coach over his girls to extract sexual favors then you're right ,he has NO business being a coach. Until I know otherwise I am not ready to burn him at the stake.He lost his career, it's enough people.As far as this message board goes...Shame on 75% of your posters who know nothing about the team its' athletes or its coaches. Get a life people...go back to Jersey Shore television quit sensationalizing inaccurate facts you have no knoweledge of.The man is gone....Let this team heal...END OF STORY.

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5011641&page=7#ixzz2Kni64G41