Lagat runs 7:34 to win

TLW wrote:

Please explain to me how a 38 year old should run the 5th fastest time in the 3k and beat a 12:48 guy.

Because the previous 5th best time was a weak time. Lagat was arguably a 7:20 guy in his prime. Running 7:34 now should be no surprise. That's a 14 second difference. How many seconds do you reckon a 38 year old should lose compared to his prime 3k time?

You are an idiot. 38 year olds should not be running top 5 fastest times every in any middle distance event.

Seriously, you are delusional. 5th fastest ever indoors and you call it weak? Hahaha, letsrun is great.

Is it impossible for a 3:26 runner to run 3:34 11 years later?

Is it impossible for a 3:34 runner to run 7:34?

The fact that he ranks high on the indoor 3000m, not a particularly well-contested event, doesn't mean much. The equivalent time at 5000 wouldn't put him anywhere.

Ho Hum wrote:

Is it impossible for a 3:26 runner to run 3:34 11 years later?

LOL.

3:26 clean running with El G. LOL, that's a whole different topic.

Ho Hum wrote:

Look, this is nonsense if you actually have a sense of Lagat's career. He ran 3:26 in the 1500 in his prime, and his best 1500 last year was 3:34. In fact, look at what's happened to his 1500 since that 3:26, and you'll see a nice consistent loss of speed. Yearly SBs from 2001:

3:26.34

3:27.91

3:30.55

3:27.40

3:29.30

3:29.68

3:33.85

3:32.75

3:32.56

3:32.51

3:33.11

3:34.63

And for those who don't think it's possible to run fast as an older athlete, Eamonn Coughlan ran his last sub-4:00 mile at 41.

If you want to argue that Lagat's earlier times were doped, that's fine. However, to claim that his times haven't gotten worse when they very clearly have is just ignorance. His 5k has improved because he never focused on it in his prime. Here's the reality: he is a 3:33-34 guy with the endurance to go with it, much like Rupp last year (actually worse endurance).[/quote]

A 3:59 mile and a 7:33 indoor 3K are a little different.

Based on his regression in the 1500m, you could extrapolate back that he could have run about a 7:17 for the 3K in his prime. That is 2 seconds ahead of a WR (Komen's 7:19) that is a little hard to fathom in that it is way out there and seems untouchable. Like the Chinese women's MD records.

Also interesting, that nobody is even coming close to 3:26 in the 1500m these days, breaking 3:30 is very rare. Why do you think that is?

I am not saying what Lagat did was impossible. I am just saying that to accept it without question, in light of all that has been exposed in the past 5 years and the fact that they guy did have a "false" positive at one point, is not really opening your eyes. It is certainly not "nonsense" to say the performance invites a lot of questions.

I'm literally laughing out loud. 3:26 at the tail end of the EPO era.

11 years is a long time. It's a different story if 20 + 11 = 31 years old.

LAGAT IS 38 PEOPLE. He didn't pop that 3:26 at age 20.

You guys are delusional. Still own your Livestrong bracelets?

Were you guys cheering on Regina when she was running 4:00 indoors at 38?

Look at this, guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_masters_athletics

Lagat´s mile performance in the summer 2011 was a 3:51, and he ran also the 5k in 12:53. He will pulverize all M40 world records, especially the M40 3k record will be a mellifluous run for him.

the main difference is that Regina Jacops improved at that age. BL is slowly slowing down.

Ho Hum wrote:

look at what's happened to his 1500 since that 3:26, and you'll see a nice consistent loss of speed. Yearly SBs from 2001:

3:26.34

3:27.91

3:30.55

3:27.40

3:29.30

3:29.68

3:33.85

3:32.75

3:32.56

3:32.51

3:33.11

3:34.63

I see a sudden loss of interest, not a consistent loss of speed. Suddenly he just wasn't interested in going faster than 3:32 anymore.

Would he have any trouble going sub-3:32 again if he really wanted to and was willing to train for it? Not at all. But he's been there, done that, and no doubt it was hella hard, so why would he want to go through it again? Better spend the effort on doing things he hasn't done yet.

Declining performance is often about motivation rather than physiology.

TLW wrote:

I'm literally laughing out loud. 3:26 at the tail end of the EPO era.

See, that's the real crime of scum like Armstrong and Jacobs. They create cynical little hairballs like this guy.

fake runner wrote:

Look at this, guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_masters_athletics

Lagat´s mile performance in the summer 2011 was a 3:51, and he ran also the 5k in 12:53. He will pulverize all M40 world records, especially the M40 3k record will be a mellifluous run for him.

They're wrong about Lagat's mile. Aouita ran 3:49 at age 37, that should be the record.

I think an important factor you are all missing is that 38 today is not what it was 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago. We're living longer, healthier and are capable of greater feats into older age as we take better care of our bodies. An elite athlete, of the right type, with the right training regimen and lifestyle these days, I see no reason they can't still excel well into their 30s.

That's not to say everyone will be capable but I hardly think it's fair to use "he's 38 and still running x y or z times" as an excuse to condemn him for drug use, especially when he's not setting times on fire, just hanging around and being competitive.

Bad Wigins wrote:

I see a sudden loss of interest, not a consistent loss of speed. Suddenly he just wasn't interested in going faster than 3:32 anymore.

Would he have any trouble going sub-3:32 again if he really wanted to and was willing to train for it? Not at all. But he's been there, done that, and no doubt it was hella hard, so why would he want to go through it again? Better spend the effort on doing things he hasn't done yet.

Declining performance is often about motivation rather than physiology.

Considering the way he got smoked in the Olympic 5k and in his head to head kick with Rupp at OTs, I see no reason to think he was capable of better than 3:32.

Bad Wigins wrote:

fake runner wrote:

Look at this, guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_masters_athletics

Lagat´s mile performance in the summer 2011 was a 3:51, and he ran also the 5k in 12:53. He will pulverize all M40 world records, especially the M40 3k record will be a mellifluous run for him.

They're wrong about Lagat's mile. Aouita ran 3:49 at age 37, that should be the record.

Aouita was born in Nov 59. He never ran a 3:49 mile in 1997!

I think Lagat was/is a great athlete, but there is no question in my mind that he, along with EL G, Ngeny, Cacho, etc, was using EPO in the late 90's/ early 00's. Not only did he have the false positive, and the braces, but I just don't buy athletes going through 1100 in 2:33 and then speeding up on the last lap with a 53!

I think Lagat and EL G were probably 3:29 guys clean , but i also have difficulty with someone still being capable of 3:32, 7:32, sub 13 for a 38 year old.

I can't think of any great miler from the past who could do that beyond about 34. Perhaps Lagat has just aged well and not done too much mileage over the years to keep his legs fresh. Maybe he is clean now, but i doubt very much he was when running 3:26.

Your arguments have no legs to stand on, so you fall back to the predictable, "I'm sure you were a Lance Armstrong and Regina Jacobs supporter too", when in fact you don't know anything about the people posting here. If you can't understand the vast difference in the evidence/cases against those 3 athletes, you aren't going to be very successful in life. It's basic analytical skills.

If it turns out that lagat is cheating, i will stop following track and field / running in its entirety forever. this is how much emotion i've invested into the belief that lagat is clean.

I believe he's clean and I'm not emotionally involved one way or the other if surprise, something comes out. I just look at everything where there's smoke there is fire and unfortunately in today's world it is a measure of how much smoke whether you can say there's fire, because everyone is suspect. And for Lagat there just isn't that much, the smoke is basically he ran 3:26, he had a false positive, and he's still a top runner in his late 30's. What I want to hear is whispers of training buddies, doctors, trainers, or the records of deer antler spray companies and random delivery dudes realistically confirming performance enhancing activity. Maybe someone can enlighten me of strong evidence of something of the latter then I'll gladly change my mind. The dude has been in the spotlight too long not to have such stories if he was doping to the gills. Like I said I'm not invested in anyone emotionally, I just want useful information to form an opinion I really don't care that much about just for the sake of being right, like I was for the last decade about armstrong.