fdgg wrote:
Deanouk and sprintgeezer,
What are your definitions of elite 800m and milers? 1:50 and 4:00? Or also, what in your opinion is the fastest 800m and mile time that a 11.00 FAT guy could run?
It's late and so this will be a quick one.
For me an elite 800 guy is someone able to break 1:47 for 800 or c. 3:55 for the mile. That is the point where an athlete starts to be good enough to run on the circuit or represent their nation. Yes, before you all start pointing out that this is poor for some countries, e.g Kenya, they do represent a quality standard for many other nations. I think 1:50 and 4:00 are more your sort of county/state standard.
Anyway, I generally agree with sprintgeezer that most (predominantly) 800m trained athletes who have run below 1:47, couldn't break 11.0 FAT from blocks without specific training on use of blocks. I think that number would rise a bit if they were allowed to use a standing start.
While I have no doubt that Juantorena, who, lets face it was predominantly a 400m runner trying his luck at 800m for pretty much the first time that year, could have broken 11.0 FAT in 1976, sprintgeezer is right in saying that he didn't actually do it. Personally I'd suggest he could have run 10.6 in 76. Had he moved up and concentrated on the 800 more, then his 400 ability would have been compromised and so would his 100m.
As for Cruz, again, his 10.86 was a training run and it isn't known whether this was from blocks and had FAtiming systems in place. It was probably what appeared on his coach's watch when hand timing him, meaning it was more like 11.0 had FAT been used.
Looking at Harbig's progression, he seemed to jump from 1:50 to 1:46 in a short space of time. His 100m best of 10.6 would have been hand timed and therefore more like 10.8/10.9 FAT. At this point he held the NR of 46.8 for 400m, which is a better quality performance than his 800 pb (1:50) that year.
By improving his 400/800 ability the next year, '39 to 46.0/1:46.6, its probable his 100m ability would have dropped slightly.
So far we have 2 guys likely to have or been capable of running 11.0 FAT, but both were probably better 400 runners than 800.
Nowadays, most elite 800 guys are specialists in that event alone. There are increasingly few who do the 400/800 or even the 800/1500, unlike bygone eras.
I think it would be difficult for Rudisha to break 11.0 from blocks in his 1:41 form, for the same reasons as Cruz. He is tall and gangly and would take a while to get into his running. Perhaps from a standing start and he certainly would be able to run 21 low to mid for 200 from blocks. I think it more likely that someone like Borza or Coe, with similar 400 ability to Cruz & Rudisha, could run 11.0 due to their smaller frame and height. They tended to have a slightly better turn of speed.
As far as what is the fastest an 11.0 FAT guy could run at 8 & Mile, its hard to be specific, as there will always be anomalies.
Certainly I can't think of a faster miler than Coe, when he ran 3:47 in 81 (and looked capable of quite a bit faster), who the same year ran a 45.6 relay from a standing/stumbling start. His first 100m there was pretty much bang on 11.0, so I would think he could have run 11.0 FAT from the blocks in 81.
But this is one of the exceptions to the rule. As sprintgeezer implies, I doubt many of the world's top 800 men could break 11.0 FAT from blocks at present.