Salazar/Rupp/Farah ... Looking for an unfair advantage

The only problem with your argument is that it is not a relatively rare disfunction, it is often underdiagnosed, and furthermore, as others have already posted, can be triggered and/or is often more common among athletes who undergo long periods of heavy training. So, i guess the point you are making is not a good one. The point previously posted regarding Al Sal's greater awareness of the potential problem because he himself suffers from thyroid disease probably has resulted in his vigilance regarding his athletes' thyroid function to make sure they are in proper good health. The overall all point that Al Sal is aware of is that this is a problem among runners (not just temporary depressed thyroid function due to training, but permanent depressed function, or more properly an oscillating degradation in function, related to an autoimmune attack on the thyroid gland. All of those runners out there who over the years have waves of good running and high energy and waves of depression, fatigue and the inability to race worth their own A88 are all likely suffering from the same thing and should talk to a doctor. Al Sal is just wise enough to take care of his athletes and not just chalk things up to overtraining. There is nothing wrong with that. His athletes are healthy and well cared for and they can then train to the best of their abilities. This is what most coaches should be doing, but they don't, and it is why Al's runners are crushing it these days.

Logic strikes again!

OK, so if I understand you correctly, most elite runners actually need to be taking thyroid medication, but only Alberto Salazar amongst coaches has figured this out? It's not like blood tests are a new invention, or nobody has thought of monitoring various hormone levels.

Look at it this way - say we had never heard of Salazar's group being associated with thyroid meds. Let's say instead we heard that, say, Gebresellasie, the Bekeles, and Silesi Sihine were all taking thyroid medication. Would it not raise your eyebrows? Or would you be willing to adopt your current attitude, which seems to be "Move along folks, nothing to see here, it's perfectly normal for a group of healthy elite athletes to all be on prescription thyroid medications".

No, I am saying that most elite runners should be attuned to the state of their health. You are twisting words. In light of this, I would expect that the rates of autoimmune thyroid disease are higher in endurance athletes over the general population; what that is I do not know, it is just a hypothesis. And personally, no I would not think it is a problem if some african runners were taking thyroid meds to treat thyroid problems. I also do not think it would help them much if they do not have thyroid problems. There is a big difference when people are just taking EPO without any actual health reasons and their production levels are normal versus supplementing for the key metabolic hormone when your body doesn't produce it normally or at all anymore. In addition in this case the this is documented and publically known with respect to galen and al, and perfectly legitimate and legal. B vitamins boost your health and metabolism, should they be banned to. There is a difference between taking care of your health publicly and in a medically sanctioned way and secretly shoving jet fuel down your throat before competition or in training.

Hazmat wrote:

OK, so if I understand you correctly, most elite runners actually need to be taking thyroid medication, but only Alberto Salazar amongst coaches has figured this out? It's not like blood tests are a new invention, or nobody has thought of monitoring various hormone levels.

Look at it this way - say we had never heard of Salazar's group being associated with thyroid meds. Let's say instead we heard that, say, Gebresellasie, the Bekeles, and Silesi Sihine were all taking thyroid medication. Would it not raise your eyebrows? Or would you be willing to adopt your current attitude, which seems to be "Move along folks, nothing to see here, it's perfectly normal for a group of healthy elite athletes to all be on prescription thyroid medications".

This needs to be scrutinized. I have never in my whole life known one single person on thyroid medication including all the people who were on 2 or 3 prescribed drugs for diabetes or hypertension that were in their 40's. Not 25-30 year old athletes.

hmm ... I know at least two people on thyroid medication, neither of them in Salazar's camp, neither an athlete.

Start asking your friends. Also, testing is not as common as it should be. So most people don't know or ever find out. Actually, autoimmune thyroid disease is commonly misdiagnosed as bio-polar disorder. Obesity epidemic, maybe McD's has a little to do with it, maybe not? It is highly under-reported and despite this if you ask people you will probably find out more than you thought have it diagnosed.

Pencil necked geeks listen up. Bodybuilders have known for ages that heavy training/overtraining suppresses thyroid. That's why low thyroid is VERY common among elite endurance athletes who have been training for extended periods of time without long breaks; which of course, they need to do to be elites.

How do you avoid low hormone levels and still train hard? You take thyroid and testosterone within allowable limits.

Also, if your natural thyroid/test levels are less than optimal-- say a normal to high 1 to 1 or 2 to 1, you'd be giving your competition a significant advantage if you didn't use exogenous hormones to bring your levels up.

Many posters should not have issue. Many here admit to caffeine before runs/races (I think it's legalized PED'ing). It's wrong for those posters to just so conveniently draw the line between the 2. The mechanisms & extremeties are different. But the underlying intents are exactly the same.

Ok. Runners get low iron from overtraining and poor diet and no one complains about iron supplements. But it seems a very big grey area to take medication that you require because your body is compromised from training.

When I was born HGH was an experimental drug and was suggested to premature children. I could have been taking that in 1967. My mom shot that down and it pissed me off as a kid since I was always the second smallest kid and underweight.

The sport of Track should be the most honest and you get the most out of what the genetic cards dealt you. Unless you have a life threatening condition than medication in my opinion should not be used to get you to an ambiguously defined "normal".

I'm not cheating, I'm simply repairing my fatigued muscles with steroids.

I think you still misunderstand the probability, and you corroborate with what I suggested previously--that you think a small amount of evidence (ie, the small probability) marks Rupp/Salazar as suspicious and likely cheaters.

I'm not refuting this possibility (this may indeed be true), but I'm refuting your reasoning because it's bad math/science. Correlation does not equal causation, and the odds are probably not quite what they seem at first glance.

Again, please see the "birthday paradox" (linked below) for a description of why "small probabilities" aren't often that small. The video linked previously wasn't as good an explanation as the text linked below.

http://www.whydomath.org/Reading_Room_Material/ian_stewart/coincidence.html

What do such calculations teach us about other kinds of coincidence? First, not to be unduly impressed by things that seem unlikely: maybe they're not... But there's another lesson: a coincidence seems striking to you if it involves you... So when we notice coincidences, but ignore non-coincidences, we make the coincidences seem more significant than they are...

Thyroid disease is real serious if left untreated. So you are saying that if all of a sudden some runner's health declines and they get to the point where running at their normal level or even near it is impossible, that they should not get treated for the health problem because their genetics say they are supposed suffer and experience an early decline in health and running ability and that getting treated is essentially cheating your lot in life. You are an idiot, a big one. So do people have to rely on idiots like yourself to decide which health problems can be treated and which ones can't because certain health problems are supposed to be just be accepted as an inferiority even if it results in a shortened life because you arbitrarily decided it doesn't count. Iron deficiency can't be treated. Forget PT for muscle injuries, that is your genetics and helping yourself get healthy is a big no no....you are cheating. Cancer treatment, nope...cheater....asthma, nope....cheater......cataract surgery, nope, cheater, youare supposed run blind and knowing where you are going is not your right because you suck and if you try to see normal again you are a cheater.......CHEATER

So basically you think health problems shouldn't be corrected for athletes because then they would be cheating their genetic predisposition and by performing like a normal healthy person when they are supposed to suck because the health problem is who they are........You must be right ....I am thinking, should I change my mind, nope, you're still an idiot

Or maybe everyone with treated medical conditions should compete separately from the superior athletes so that when some tricks the world into thinking they are healthy the "real" healthy people won't have their egos crushed......jesus.......there is a difference between treated a disease and smoking the crack pipe before you race....deal with it

So because Viren came up with an fake excuse to blood dope that means everyone who is treated for actual condition is a cheater too. Real good. We might as well all just go hope, it is hopeless.

Yes that is what I'm saying.

Victor Conte has tweeted that the doping regulations are easy to get around because everyone knows what the acceptable limits of testosterone or other hormones is. So athletes can rig the system by taking enough performance enhancing drugs to reach the acceptable limit even if their bodies would not normally produce enough testosterone or whatever the other hormones are to naturally reach those limits. So it very well could be that Salazar or other coaches play this type of game.

Anyone got a link to a resource of athletes TUEs? Would make an interesting read to say the least.

he is Somali.

Depdawg wrote:

I know for sure Salazars group are regularly tested and their blood profiles registered so any blood variations would show up. Are you saying that the testers are in collusion ? It's sickening to always be getting these unsubstantiated hints and accusations by faceless trolls

The statistical likelihood that this "reportage" came from a google search that landed hits on this website and its bullspit is pretty likely.

Look at the article, it says that Salazar came into "disrepute" by showing upon Conte's Balco list, but it does not report Salazar's explanation.

Totally horsecrap.

Conte contacted Salazar, as he was a predator, trying to associate himself with big name athletes, and had heard of Salazar's health woes.

In the end, Salazar did no PED business with Conte.