Brian Wave wrote:
If the other runners in the race did not want the pace slowed down they should have simply gone around Flanagan. They chose not to.
You must be the dumbest person on letsrun. The other runners WERE setting their own pace. Flanagan got in front of them and purposely blocked them to cause them to slow down and caused Rogers to fall.
The reason that Maier is looking back in that photo is because she made the contact that dropped Rogers while she was moving to the outside from behind Flanagan as the latter slowed down.
photo from race wrote:
http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonian/photo/2012/06/-a025b94f33aaf56a.JPG
J.R. wrote:
Natosha Rogers would have made the A standard without Shalane Flanagan admittedly slowing the pack down, which caused Rogers to fall.
The slower pace, 5 seconds slower the next lap, Rogers' fall, and additional time lost the subsequent laps, caused Rogers and possibly Williams and Erdmann to not make the A standard.
As it was, Rogers only missed the standard by 12 seconds, showing she she would have made it had Flanagan not interfered with her and the other runners in the race.
Flangan was not in the race to qualify for the team, but to run ramrod for her training partner, Lisa Uhl, at cost to the other runners in the field. Had she not done this, Natosha Rogers would definitely be on the team, and perhaps Alisha Williams or Tara Erdmann ahead of Lisa Uhl.
Flanagan's actions caused the erratic slow first 5k of the race, which resulted in the standard not being met by any of the runners. Again, she was not in the race to qualify for the team, and should not have been there. The other runners were running on pace to achieve the standard at the point where she blocked the pack and caused it to slow down.
Therefore I feel there should be a rule of legitimate intention, where if a runner qualifies in more than one event and then withdraws from one of them, or participates in a second event that materially affects it's outcome, both of which Flanagan did, that the athlete shall no longer be entitled to compete in either event at the subsequent championship meet.
In this instance, because of the foul play, I feel that both Flanagan and Uhl should be disqualified from competing in London, in either the 10,000m or the marathon, and the 4th placing runners with the A standard shall be entitled to fill their positions. I hope, in the interest of fair play, that this shall be done immediately.
I agree with this. In a fair universe, could Rogers petition USATF to send her onto the Olmpics in place of Uhl? I'm thinking they could use their discretion much like with letting Webb into the Trials 5k.
At the very least, I'd DQ Flanagan from this race for pulling that stunt.
This thread is useless without pics.
If you don't like the pace, go to the front and make it faster.
Shalane DID NOT screw any of the runners. Deborah was involved with Natosha's fall, but it was unintentional. Deborah had the balls to make a break for an honest attempt and none of the other runners went with her. They were content with sitting on Shalanes shoulder and letting her dictate the pace knowing she isn't even competing in the Olympics in the 10,000. Lisa was a mess in that race and she admitted it, but considering her last year and a half, I can understand her stress. This race is a classic example of why the American's didn't do well internationally years back in distance races. Only a few of the girls ran with any courage and most had no race plan. Shame on the coaches. It was a lost opportunity for 17 of the 24 ladies running. Big props to Hastings and Natosha for the strong finish and kudos to Deborah for at least trying to mix it up.
Shalane slowing a race which runners are trying to meet a time is unacceptable. She got away with it because her status as a runner, she should be ashamed that her actions inhibited the progress of a whole field of runners, she knew her status as a runner would allowed her to get away with it and intimated them less accomplished runners, they stayed back because of their respect for her, and she took advanage of that. sad
If Flanagan wanted to help Uhl, the proper thing to have done was to wait for her and then pull her back to the pack, rather than try to slow the pack down. Her jumping to the front and then slowing down did in fact cause Maier to move out wide causing Rogers to fall.
Props to Maier for making a bid to keep the pace moving. Ironically the only girl who might have gone with her was Rogers, exccept she went down. I've watched that kid run all year, and she likes to run from the front (Kosinski basically sat on her in that 5k where Kosinski ran 15:3x. She also led much of the indoor 5k championships, only to fade to 8th, and she led essentially the entire way in her natl championship 10k)
Flanagan/Uhl had no interest in immediately chasing down Maier running solo up front, as only Bawcom was at risk if Maier made the A. But two runners chasing the A would have put Uhl at risk and may have resulted in a more aggressive chase.
We'll never know if Rogers would have made the A, as she was running well beyond her previous PR, but she looked awful comfortable throughout the race.
This is one of the silliest threads I've ever seen on here. That's saying a lot.
Mr. Obvious wrote:
This is one of the silliest threads I've ever seen on here. That's saying a lot.
Then I guess you haven't seen the one saying that now the race is run, they should change the rules to let Natosha Rogers and others chase the standard?
long sox wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:This is one of the silliest threads I've ever seen on here. That's saying a lot.
Then I guess you haven't seen the one saying that now the race is run, they should change the rules to let Natosha Rogers and others chase the standard?
There are a lot of silly threads right now. Shalane Flanagan ran in a race. She did not illegally impede Notosha Rogers.
Definitely not illegal. But somehow not quite honorable either. But that's just me
Did Flanagan intend to be unethical or did she, in the heat of the moment, want to look out for her friend?
That is to say, did she come into this race planning to make it work for her friend or was it a split second decision, a wish to help someone she was training with, not thinking of the larger consequences of what she was doing? She's human and the human impulse is to help a friend--and in mid-race, it's not likely someone's going to be thinking of all the ins and outs of such a choice.
I won't pretend to read her mind. The outcome of her choice was unfortunate for other runners, I agree. And if there was a concerted plan in place, I'd be more inclined to pass judgment... up to a point.
As some have suggested, the reality of world championship competition is that there will be team strategies and athletes need to recognize/be prepared for such things--doesn't mean they should happen, but they often do.
So for me, the jury is still out. I'd rather the race had progressed in a normal way, but it didn't. And apparently Rogers has no intent to protest how things went down. Someone else might, and if they do, I hope that officials weigh the facts carefully before deciding how to proceed.
It's been an interesting Trials.
It was poor sportsmanship for Shalane to intentionally go to the front of the pack to slow down the race for a teammate. Obviously that's a dangerous move because it ends up with all the other runners tightly packed behind her and log-jammed trying to get around which can lead to trips and falls as it did with Notosha.
I lost a lot of respect for Shalane doing this. It's a bush league thing to do. Can't cheer for her anymore. No, it wasn't illegal and I don't think she should be DQ'ed or removed from the marathon team or any rule change be made. Just very poor sportsmanship on her part.
Like someone else mentioned if Shalane was that concerned about her teammate catching back up, Shalane should have waited for Uhl and gradually led her back to the pack.
And what about Uhl? As an elite runner can she not tie her own shoes properly before one of the biggest races of her career? Triple tie them. Quadruple tie them. Sew the things together with a thread and needle. Never allow your laces to ruin your race. This isn't Junior High gym class.
I'm just amazed that an elite runner could make that kind of rookie mistake (improperly tied shoelaces). Yes, everyone is mortal and fallible, but Jesus, what next -- forgetting to wear a jogbra? Eating a pile of Indian food the morning of the race?
I'm sure it's been observed already that everyone in the race had the option of passing Shalane when she slowed the pace down. This isn't fukkin' NASCAR with a yellow flag.
Honestly, there's no way to know if Rogers would've gotten the standard either way. That's merely an assumption. And to blame unfair tactics is an excuse. I mean, why not make the argument that if Uhl's shoelace never would've come untied, this wouldn't have been an issue; kind of like in Indy car racing during a crash - everyone is put on hold until they clear the crash. If Rogers didn't like it, she could've bolted to the front. Having said that, I don't think Shalane should've run the race at all if she had no intention of doing it at the games. She must've gotten a bonus or something. Lame.
Funny we used the same analogy, pretty much...
Sagarin wrote:
Funny we used the same analogy, pretty much...
Yeah, but you upgraded from stock cars to the real deal...someone chime in with Formula One chatter and we'll have covered all the bases!
GGGG wrote:
Lisa K U needs to learn how to tie a show.
And you need to learn how to spell "shoe."
There is not a competitive athlete -Olympic caliber- alive who doesn't realize that pace control is a method of racing. I teach it to athletes from high school to elite. I happen to have used that very strategy with an Olympic Trials athlete. No one in that race needed to follow Shalane. they did it at their own peril. Personally I think leeching off of someone else every single race of your life shows a lack of sportsmanship but that's personal not some universal truth I think everyone should agree with. All the same, it makes me smile all the more when people get burned for doing and why I teach frontrunners how to discourage leeches.
76x25=31:40.
Why was anyone who wanted to go to the Olympics running 77 in that third lap?
