Drug Cheat Abderrahim Goumri finally caught!

Mr. Canova

PLEASE READ THIS!

"In his report, Seppelt even named some tip Kenyan athletes including Olympic and marathon champions in his uncover where he interviewed a former authority of a Anti Doping Denmark, Bengt Saltin who purported to have remarkable varying changes in some of a runners blood levels between 2008 and 2010 when they raced in Europe."

Bengt Saltin is a BAMF when it comes to doping. I am certan that he would not make something like this up. Can you explain to me in what other way than taking PEDs this is possible? Is this the great Kenyan secret?

But that can't be right, because What would Africans have to gain by buying epo very cheaply at their nearest local pharmacy without a prescription necessary??

Sigh. Why do those trolls bother to claim EPO is expensive. The patent for procit expired in 2004. Look it is generic now. Asprin is generic. You are allowed by law to produce it without asking the developer for permission. was expensive. Not anymore after patent ran out. The big pharma charges a lot because they developed it they should make money for a certain period. cant have a medicine forever patented, because that is morally wrong.

Looked at procit 747.82 bucks for a 40000 u/ml vial. Generic is half price. It is all over the internet. I have no clue about what 40000 u per ml means by the way.

Renato Canova wrote:

You make some confusion. An athlete running 27'30" is not one of the top in the world, is 1'15" slower than the WR and in the same race goes to be lapped.

The point is that runners consistently run at a much higher level on EPO.

Using the word "never" with respect to any matter of doping undercuts your credibility massively.

ggg wrote:Claiming (in earlier posts) that EPO doesn't help, makes

you look silly

i have apologised on canova's behalf many times

he obviously mis-stated his opinion

i'm sure he didn't mean to say that epo doesn't help east africans, but rather that it has less effect per same dose taken as low-altitude guys

yes of course it will help east africans, but the doses are going to have to be much higher which means much more expense

( & proper, pharmaceutical epo is damn expensive even for therapeutic doses - i often have fights with patients with renal failure asking me to prescribe it - i refuse, & tell them it has to be prescribed by their hospital specialist & to go contact him ASAP - it's not coming out of my budget )

& much more risk of side-effects

( it can be a very dangerous drug if too high doses given & risk of thrombo-embolic phenomena with stroke/MI )

please kindly stop berating canova for a mis-statement

Has this thread been raped of all anti-Canova sentiment?

Ventolin, he said that EPO doesn't help East Africans.

EPO obviously helps East Africans because you wouldn't be able to buy it in the highstreet in Nairobi if it didn't.

He also said that a tailwind doesn't affect the times of a marathon, but that's another story.

trollism wrote:Ventolin, he said that EPO doesn't help East Africans

learn to read

i said it was clearly a mis-statement

EPO obviously helps East Africans because you wouldn't be able to buy it in the highstreet in Nairobi if it didn't

idiot

same shops also have a watches kiosk selling

"genuine rolex" for $10

He also said that a tailwind doesn't affect the times of a marathon, but that's another story.

seeing as makau & kipsang got within nearly 30's of mutai's time, the best M'er in the world by far with that crushing new york win, i doubt wind gave them much help in boston

Why don't you just admit that Canova's post here is dispositive--a magisterial summary of the historic evidence and a cogent answer to your doping smears.

And please, spare us irrelevancies from mostly aerobic races such as the 400 and 800.

Fair enough Ventolin. Only Ryan Hall was wind assisted at Boston.

The howling gale didn't affect the other nice smiley clean Africans with dodgy doctors looking after them.

I think Canova should be able to correct his statement himself

if he feels he mis-stated his opinion.

trollism wrote:Fair enough Ventolin. Only Ryan Hall was wind assisted at Boston

moron

any guy who has 59'43 ability who trains fully for M can run 2"04'58

The howling gale didn't affect the other nice smiley clean Africans with dodgy doctors looking after them.

f*cking moron

boston is such a tough, hilly course, all the wind did was likely flatten-out the undulations to make it a berlin comparable course

use your brain you idiot

& imbecile

what part of $10 rolex your numbskull not comprehend ???

ggg wrote:I think Canova should be able to correct his statement himself

if he feels he mis-stated his opinion.

he's not a doctor

i understand his statement/sentiment

i "corrected" it to what he wouda stated if he was a doc who's dished out buckets of epo ( but not from my budget ) to patients for 25y

trollism wrote:

Has this thread been raped of all anti-Canova sentiment?

Ventolin, he said that EPO doesn't help East Africans.

EPO obviously helps East Africans because you wouldn't be able to buy it in the highstreet in Nairobi if it didn't.

He also said that a tailwind doesn't affect the times of a marathon, but that's another story.

No, Afrikans need EPO to treat cancer, anemia and AIDS. There is the reason why they have these candy shops selling EPO. Just being sarcastic...

I rest my case.

you are a scholar & a gentleman...

The points is that ALL the best Kenyans in 5000 / 10000 / HM and Marathon, and steeple (I mean the top 10-15) ALWAYS run at a absolutely normal level of EPO, and this level NEVER changes during every type of test, in competition or out of competition. This is the reason because all the top kenyan runners hope that the biological passport can work more consistently in the future : because they don't have anything to fear, while in many other Countries a lot of athletes start to be not very tranquil...

You must understand that with top athletes we use periodic blood test (who doesn't use cant be a good coach) in order to see the level of ferritine, of iron and transferrina, that after some kind of workouts (for example when we use lactic training) normally decrease. We need to know this data because, when we see low level of ferritine, we know that the athlete needs a new period of aerobic training, reducing the intensity. Ferritine can be considered the iron the athletes have in their store : if the level is low, they need to wait to recover the normal level before training very hard. This is the reason, for example, because all the runners going in altitude from sea level need to take folic acid together with vitamin B and C, in order to increase the ability in absorbtion of Oxygen because of the lack of this gas in the air.

This, obviously, is not something regarding Kenyans and Ethiopians : for them the situation is normal, and they don't need to change their behavior.

Another thing I already explained a lot of times, but it seems many don't understand :

a) when you go to altitude from sea level, the new situation provokes a reaction at the level of medulla with the result to increase the number of erythrocytes (not always, but in 80/85% of cases). So, after a short period of time, these athletes see their hematocrit going up (from 3 to 5 points) because of the higher number of RBC.

b) when you STAY in altitude, you don't have any new stimulus, but you have ADAPTATION. This means that the number of RBC remain constant (and not very high, African have less RBC than people of sea level), but thei globular volume is bigger. And all the top African runners have a normal level of hematocrit (rarely over 45), the most part of cases lower than the level of European and American runners.

c) at the end, they have less viscosity than athletes staying at sea level. We can see this practically in a very simple way : if we have an athlete able to reach a max heart pulse of 200 beats / min at sea level, and we ask him to go at maximal speed for 300m climbing (that is a good way for reaching the max possible heart beats) at sea level, he really reach 200. We ask him to do the same in altitude, and he's not able to overtake 180 (about 10% less). If we ask to a top Kenyan / Ethiopian to do the same in altitude, he reach 200 or more. If he repeats the same at sea level, nothing changes. This is possible because the blood fluidity is very much higher than in athletes living and training at sea level.

But, of course, everybody can know from books and experiments done at sea level with different type of animals.... and supposes to be the owner of the truth.

At the end, we continue to produce clean results with top athletes, and who believes in doping continue to lose....

good situation for coaches believing in training and knowing where it's possible to arrive without shortcuts.

newname,

I won't spend so many words saying now intelligent you are, in an effort to keep my post short.

Your main logical fallacy is one of "guilt by association".

Sprinters are not distance runners.

Cyclists are not distance runners.

The East Africans are not the WEST.

What happens to your arguments when you cannot borrow from all these unrelated events or populations?

And what are we supposed to understand from Marty Liquouri? Despite the fact that the Finns were doing nothing against the rules, Lasse Viren never said he blood doped.

For me, a much more powerful argument would be factors that discuss the specific situation of East Africans, rather than borrowing from unrelated parallels of sprinting and long tour cycling.

Look at the data I provided above. Since 1989, 38 Kenyans, and 14 Ethiopians, plus one "Qatarian", along with 10 other athletes, have better performances the 10K record. That's 53 East African athletes out of a total of 63.

The best evidence anyone can provide is something that shows how have the Kenyans and Ethiopians managed to escape detection despite world dominance at distance events for more than 20 years.

If you have to "borrow" evidence from sprinters and cyclists, or project Western culture onto East Africans, maybe that's because you can't make the point otherwise.

I heard that in east Europe epo coast 150e a week ? ! i dont know how much it coast in Russian ? many Afrikans are were cought with epo ! And how many use ...without not cought !? Off course you run higher level with epo boost ! and your time is much better 400m - marathon running !! [quote]Cleanrunner wrote: