3:54 Webb? Really?

what do you know there is a term for this

desensitization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_

(psychology)

Webb was not doping in high school, college or post collegiate.

His times, throughout his career point to times he would end up running. He ran 9:20 for 3200 as a freshman in high school off 20 miles a week and 4:06 as a sophomore breaking Ryun's class record. This is not a Cathal Lombard scenario where he drops 3 minutes off his 10k in a year.

Webb's progression has been consistent with his early career times.

However, it's interesting to see how fast he's fallen post Salazar. And this is the important part - POST SALAZAR.

Before 2012, a bad race for Webb would be a 4:00 mile. Remember when he had a 2 hour post race tantrum last year indoors when he ran 4:00?

Now he's running 1:54 and 3:54.

Salazar operates in a grey area. Rupp and Ritz on thyroid medication (Ritz was with Salazar for 1 month and then had 'thyroid issues').

Did Salazar put Webb on something that altered his body chemistry? After a cycle, the body just doesn't jump right back to normal. FYI, there are new research chemicals out there.

The times Webb has been running is bizarre because he could literally run faster as a sophomore in high school when he was running 30 miles a week.

Webb running the times he is shows that something is physically and fundamentally wrong with his body. There is literally no other explanation than something happened when he was with Salazar.

I don't understand those who seem to take pleasure in his failings. I feel terrible for the guy, and hope that he can pull it together because under no circumstances (even if he did the hardest workout of his life that morning/ was sick/ got shot in the leg) should he be running that slow.

Not sure if this is relevant, but I accidentally found it recently. Reminds me of what a boss he was and how he himself could probably never have seen this coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouv3sM60aaE

This thyroid thing is news to me! It is the perfect explanation for his times and size increases! If he was on synthroid he would now be hypo thyroid. If true it fits perfectly. Wow. Just wow. Is this really true about the thyroid stuff?

Pescription drugs are always a good excuse for doping. So many athletes get phony prescriptions, especially for asthma.

Yes, it's true about the thyroid. Rupp, Adam Goucher and Ritz all have been on thyroid medication under Salazar. It's all been reported on. Also medications for Asthma.

Salazar is a proponent for using prescription medicine for performance. He did it with his own career when he won Comrades.

Do I think Webb ever used EPO? Absolutely not. Do I think Salazar had Webb on something else. Absolutely. Webb looks a lot heavier and is running 20 seconds slower in a 4 minute race than he should be.

Salazar had him on something that messed his body up.

Webb had surgery on his Achilles tendon at least once, and has had to deal with a number of injuries the past few years. I think it's more likely that he's unable to train like he used to than that he's having some kind of reaction to thyroid medication. He was never on it unless you have some evidence - Salazar's been pretty open about what medications his athletes are on.

You may well be right, but he reportedly did a workout before hand and if they were really expecting him to run a fast time then he wouldn't likely be in heat 3 of 4 in the 800. I hope the best for him, but I'm certainly not too worried about it as U.S. running continues to get more exciting; however, his and Robby's most recent interviews + the success Vig has had makes me think it's possible he gets back to legit form. Maybe not by the trials, but by next year perhaps.

Yes, Webb has had to deal with injuries. Fortunately, he is training, and has been for a number of months, under a superb middle distance coach.

Despite training with a superb coach and 1:45 800m training partner, Alan Webb has run 1:54 (on multiple occasions) and what is equivalent to a 4:11 mile.

It goes past fitness and injury. If injury was still an issue, Webb would not have flown down to Florida from Virginia.

If this past weekend wasn't evidence enough that Webb's body is messed up, I don't know what to tell you.

After Salazar, Webb has run times that are so astronomically slow consistently, that it shows something done under Salazar has messed him up.

What do you think took place? Maybe the regime of prescriptions for various ailments, namely thyroid and asthma 'issues' didn't work for Webb and he is paying the price.

Also, when you mention that Salazar 'has been pretty open on what his athletes are on', doesn't that send up a red flag?

Athletes are not supposed 'to be on' anything. These are world class, super fit young adults.

When a coach has numerous athletes in his stable on thyroid and asthma medications that doesn't seem odd to you? It's just the tip of the iceberg really.

I do think Salazar is pretty shady, but he's usually said when his athletes were on some medication: Ritz, Goucher, Rupp at the very least are all openly on prescription medications. Actually, they have to declare it IIRC because thyroid and asthma medications aren't legal without prescription. So where is the evidence that Webb was on anything? Maybe he refused to supplement and that's why he left Salazar; I don't know. But you're just assuming his body has been messed up by drugs with no evidence he was ever on them.

Like I said before, I think his Achilles is now damaged to the point that he can't train as hard as he used to. He had tendinitis for years before having surgery, and who knows how well that worked. If he can't train at 100%, it doesn't matter who his coach is or how talented he may be - you don't run 1:4X off talent alone.

Was Webb limping in the 3:54 video? Would Vig let him fly to Florida if his Achilles wasn't 100%? Would Vig let him race indoors in an injury was even a concern?

You are delusional if you think his Achilles is holding him back at this point. He ran 4:06 in high school off 25 miles a week and you honestly believe he needs to 'train hard' to run 1:54 and 3:54? What?

The evidence is there already.

Webb runs astronomically slower than he should consistently after being training with a coach who has most of his athletes on prescription drugs. Webb didn't leave abruptly because he wasn't getting enough attention in Oregon.

The fact that Alan Webb is running 1:54 and you think it's because he can't train hard enough is laughable.

I don't think he can train well at all, or he's missed so much time that he's lost a lot of fitness. You're calling me delusional but basing your entire argument off:

1) the idea that he abused prescription drugs (no evidence)

2) somehow these prescription drugs ruined his body in the sort period he was with Salazar (no evidence)

If you don't think talent can go away, check out what Michael Stember ran in his comeback 5k a few months back.

I'm basing my argument on:

1) Salazar used prescription pills himself for performance enhancement.

2) Has numerous athletes in his stable on them.

3) Within one month of joining Ritz had 'thyroid' issues.

4) Webb leaves abruptly after running 13:30 (beating Rupp) and 3:36. (Not just leaving Salazar, but all the comforts of the Nike facility).

To put it in perspective in high school Webb tripled running a 4:06 1600 with the last 800 at 1:52, a 49 400m, and a 1:49 800. In the span of 90 minutes.

The fact that you think he is running the times he is right now because he can't train hard is unbelievable.

He was running great times last year so it's not like a lost tons of fitness like you are trying to say.

Post Salazar can't even run faster than 1:54.

If you don't believe something is seriously, physically wrong with Webb, I can't keep responding because you are insane.

Go watch this video:

http://www.flotrack.org/coverage/248544-2012-Florida-Relays/video/627533-M-1500-H01-Webb-354-Roberts-346-2012-Florida-Relays

Now think about whether this performance was because Webb can't train hard or because something is wrong with his body.

You convinced me.

ohmygosh wrote:

This thyroid thing is news to me! It is the perfect explanation for his times and size increases! If he was on synthroid he would now be hypo thyroid. If true it fits perfectly. Wow. Just wow. Is this really true about the thyroid stuff?

Nevermind. If perscriptions are documented, then I guess I have no reason to think he has a thyroid problem. Oh well. Best of luck to Webb. I hope he gets his old form back.

ohmygosh wrote:

This thyroid thing is news to me! It is the perfect explanation for his times and size increases! If he was on synthroid he would now be hypo thyroid. If true it fits perfectly. Wow. Just wow. Is this really true about the thyroid stuff?

Nevermind. If perscriptions are documented, then I guess I have no reason to think he has a thyroid problem. Oh well. Best of luck to Webb. I hope he gets his old form back.

harry palms wrote:

what do you know there is a term for this

desensitization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_

(psychology)

i think this has to be more of what is going on. webb himself would not be running races if he didn't know what was going on, like drugs or issues with his health, he is a very intelligent athlete. this really does seem to be what is going on. vig knows that his issues have been losing so what better way to break this pshycological barrier then to have him race when he can't win. if he's a good coach he's going to get webb to buy into his plan and webb wouldn't be doing that if he thought the end product is times he ran when he was 16.