Poll: How old are Cheserek and Futsum?

Crotchety wrote:

It matters wrote:

I have no problem with foreigners running at U.S. high schools, but the age issue matters. I graduated at 17 years and 9 months as a 9:10 guy in the 3200 (with nearly 30 seconds improvement in each of the previous 2 years and still only running 45-55 per week). I was not even close to qualifying for Footlocker that year. And I was recruited, but not by the top schools and certainly didn't have any scholarship offers. Another year puts me sub-9 and to Footlocker, another 2 years (like Futsum!) maybe makes me a national contender. And that scenario is paved with scholarship money to top schools.

This question is, how much have you improved since you graduated? If you'd spent less time feeling sorry for yourself and more running, you might eventually have become competitive with these guys.

The self-pity here is particularly disgusting when you consider that many of these guys come to this country after being orphaned or politically persecuted in their own country.

Kid with the Gray Hair wrote:

As I posted in another such thread, I have had the exact same experience with Kenyan/Ethiopian athletes.

Who can blame them for doing this? It gives an older (In my experience 22-30 y.o.) athlete, with no hope of making it big against peer-level competition, a chance to make a splash, have their education paid for, and get some money. Age cheating is the way out of extreme poverty. Usually they only resort to this once they realize they are not going to make their national team.

How do we distinguish these people from legitimate high school aged Africans who come here? I don't have a good solution. Most 15+ East Africans who run do NOT have a birth certificate. They make up a birthdate at the passport office. I would not want to penalize them for coming from somewhere without a birth certificate, but age is a very slippery concept in rural areas like Iten and Bekoji. African runners, in the face of economic stagnation and a total lack of athletic scholarships in their home countries, run for local clubs and try to edge their way to the top. When they aren't at a world class level, they are encouraged

to compete as juniors. If this was my way out, I'd probably take it too. Surely we (globally) can think of some better system for talented runners than amatuer junior competition. This dilemma is emblematic of the lack of opportunities outside the small fraction of elite competitors, for athletes in our sport.

Mani wrote:

runstrong runtall is right!

I trained in Kenya last winter and helped one of my training partners get a birth-certificate and passport while I was there. His eldest brother prepared the documents and came back from Iten with a birth-certificate making him 17. He had told me that he was 18, so I was concerned. After questioning his other family members, I determined his correct birth date (making him 18) and demanded that we go back to Iten to have it corrected. They reluctantly agreed (after I told them he wouldn't be able to accept prize-money unless he was 18 ;) The situation ended up almost getting us arrested, and without bribery, he would have been stuck with a false birth-certificate and no hope of getting a passport.

Lying about age is the norm for African athletes, and is usually much more extreme than the example above. Ask a Kenyan how old Geb is, they'll give you a number anywhere between 40 and 50. Rudisha? Over 30. I think they're exaggerating, but you get the point.

I don't like the situation because it discourage athletes from other parts of the world. From the outside, it looks like these young guys just run for a couple months and then win a World Junior Medal. In reality, they train HARD for several years, and when they're ready, get false documents saying they're 17 and dominate the junior ranks.

However, Cheserek is NOT an example of this. I'm talking about the "18 year-olds" that are running 12:50 for 5K track and winning world junior cross. I would guess that Cheserek is 18. If he's not, I can assure you that there are hundreds of Kenyans that are under 18 and could have dominated Footlocker.

Kid with the Gray Hair wrote:

As I posted in another such thread, I have had the exact same experience with Kenyan/Ethiopian athletes.

Who can blame them for doing this? It gives an older (In my experience 22-30 y.o.) athlete, with no hope of making it big against peer-level competition, a chance to make a splash, have their education paid for, and get some money. Age cheating is the way out of extreme poverty. Usually they only resort to this once they realize they are not going to make their national team.

How do we distinguish these people from legitimate high school aged Africans who come here? I don't have a good solution. Most 15+ East Africans who run do NOT have a birth certificate. They make up a birthdate at the passport office. I would not want to penalize them for coming from somewhere without a birth certificate, but age is a very slippery concept in rural areas like Iten and Bekoji. African runners, in the face of economic stagnation and a total lack of athletic scholarships in their home countries, run for local clubs and try to edge their way to the top. When they aren't at a world class level, they are encouraged

to compete as juniors. If this was my way out, I'd probably take it too. Surely we (globally) can think of some better system for talented runners than amatuer junior competition. This dilemma is emblematic of the lack of opportunities outside the small fraction of elite competitors, for athletes in our sport.

Mani wrote:

runstrong runtall is right!

I trained in Kenya last winter and helped one of my training partners get a birth-certificate and passport while I was there. His eldest brother prepared the documents and came back from Iten with a birth-certificate making him 17. He had told me that he was 18, so I was concerned. After questioning his other family members, I determined his correct birth date (making him 18) and demanded that we go back to Iten to have it corrected. They reluctantly agreed (after I told them he wouldn't be able to accept prize-money unless he was 18 ;) The situation ended up almost getting us arrested, and without bribery, he would have been stuck with a false birth-certificate and no hope of getting a passport.

Lying about age is the norm for African athletes, and is usually much more extreme than the example above. Ask a Kenyan how old Geb is, they'll give you a number anywhere between 40 and 50. Rudisha? Over 30. I think they're exaggerating, but you get the point.

I don't like the situation because it discourage athletes from other parts of the world. From the outside, it looks like these young guys just run for a couple months and then win a World Junior Medal. In reality, they train HARD for several years, and when they're ready, get false documents saying they're 17 and dominate the junior ranks.

However, Cheserek is NOT an example of this. I'm talking about the "18 year-olds" that are running 12:50 for 5K track and winning world junior cross. I would guess that Cheserek is 18. If he's not, I can assure you that there are hundreds of Kenyans that are under 18 and could have dominated Footlocker.

It matters wrote:

You and some of the others are missing the point. I probably shouldn't have mentioned my own background because it apparently came across as whining. But I thought my example illustrated the point and I think applies to tons of runners every year.

My real point is not what it means (necessarily) for future competitiveness: sure, at some point the age difference is totally irrelevant and you've got to beat whoever you line up against. Rather, the point is that there are immediate consequences to what I think is a huge advantage in being as much as 2 years too old. Losing out on victories and publicity can mean actual lost dollars ("stolen" dollars as far as I'm concerned) in terms of missed-out athletic scholarships. That's not just an athletic consequence, but an academic and real-life one too. And I think that the feel-good benefits of publicity, increased confidence, etc are also a real loss.

Sure, as some have said, there are going to be some age differences, but it's getting increasingly ridiculous with what seems like more and more 19 year olds running in these races.