Caster Semenya strikes again

Agreed. It should be sex based, and not gender based. Gender is however you define yourself, while sex is biologically based.

i know im a dick, the original wrote:

HermaRunna wrote:

I've got a vision of Caster on the podium. Music swelling. Flag being raised. Tears flowing.

And a giant patriotic woodie.

there will be no tears flowing. he will be brushing the dirt off his shoulder and flexing like a goddam ape.

Poor Caster just wants to run and do the best she can. We should just leave her alone and not make comments.

Her name describes her. Semen? Ya

lolololol wrote:

Her name describes her. Semen? Ya

New LRC slogan: "Letsrun: The place where the little kids who are bullied at school can come to cyber bully someone else."

But Caster doesn't really have a special talent, when you break it down. It isn't about what she wants to do either. She could want to be a princess but it wont happen unless she marries a prince, blah blah etc. She is competing with the body structure and function of a man. I know she isnt a drug cheat, but that isn't the point. This isn't a punishment, the rules on this should be more clear and the IAAF should get some balls and draw the line. It must be drawn somewhere where the raw physical competition of track & field stays strictly on gender lines.

Genetically gifted is saying "my parents were athletic, thats awesome". Caster's situation is "I was born half man, half woman, which is not about her genes, she has a condition that unfortunately makes her only able to choose male or female for social purposes. She should not be able to choose for international athletic competition purposes. I'm sorry, but that is something that should have been brought up from the beginning.

Caster has every right to say "I'm a woman", and function in her life as a woman. But if the IAAF realized that this is not about human rights, and discriminating against someone, that this is about the basic raw principles of human competition, that we separate men and women firmly for a reason, then the conversation would be reaching a more suitable and agreeable end.

The IAAF didn't really agree, they were being faced with a PR nightmare of people bringing out the "Caster is being discriminated against, and South Africa may boycott stuff if we dont let her compete". The conversation should have started BEFORE she hit the world stage and everyone made a media frenzy out of it.

Harrier41 wrote:

The IAAF didn't really agree, they were being faced with a PR nightmare of people bringing out the "Caster is being discriminated against, and South Africa may boycott stuff if we dont let her compete".

Wait. Now South Africa is threatening to boycott us??! My how things have changed.

I guess if she really has an unfair advantage, then it might not be right. I just figured the IAAF wouldn't let her compete if it wasn't fair and that everyone was just being mean to her since she's different.

Look, the reason women cannot compete with men is purely biological, not social, so the distinction needs to be biological as well, rather than social. But allowing a person with testosterone producing testicles to compete versus women means the distinction isn't biological at all, it is social, which is a farce.

Do you need a freaking penis to be banned from women's events or what? The cawk doesn't make you a better athlete, it's the balls and the testo they produce and Caster has em.

Lada wrote:

The IAAF didn't release the results publicly. This is all speculation.

Which should prove to any non-retard that the leaks are correct. Do you really think they'd keep the lid on if the tests showed no balls? If they had the evidence to disprove the allegations they wouldn't do it? Nor would Caster's team? A 5-year old could join the dots!

Also, neither the IAAF or the South Africans denied the leaks. The SA's threatened to sue the IAAF for allowing the information to leak.

turning turning wrote:

Harrier41 wrote:

The IAAF didn't really agree, they were being faced with a PR nightmare of people bringing out the "Caster is being discriminated against, and South Africa may boycott stuff if we dont let her compete".

Wait. Now South Africa is threatening to boycott us??! My how things have changed.

Sweet, ban her, let the RSA boycott and the Pistorus problem is solved too. Tidy.

dopehacks wrote:

Look, the reason women cannot compete with men is purely biological, not social, so the distinction needs to be biological as well, rather than social. But allowing a person with testosterone producing testicles to compete versus women means the distinction isn't biological at all, it is social, which is a farce.

Do you need a freaking penis to be banned from women's events or what? The cawk doesn't make you a better athlete, it's the balls and the testo they produce and Caster has em.

I get what you're saying, but I just don't understand why the IAAF would say it is okay for her to compete if it is really a big deal like you say.

CSfan wrote:

dopehacks wrote:

Look, the reason women cannot compete with men is purely biological, not social, so the distinction needs to be biological as well, rather than social. But allowing a person with testosterone producing testicles to compete versus women means the distinction isn't biological at all, it is social, which is a farce.

Do you need a freaking penis to be banned from women's events or what? The cawk doesn't make you a better athlete, it's the balls and the testo they produce and Caster has em.

I get what you're saying, but I just don't understand why the IAAF would say it is okay for her to compete if it is really a big deal like you say.

Your tenor has changed so I am not sure what you know or not.

CS is not the first female athlete who has tested high for testosterone. The last one was dq'd, so its political that she's running. Nothing else.

Not only does she have knackers, she also has NO female internal squigglies, she a blank end. She can't have kids.

Not that that is everything, but its clear she has an unfair advantages on the track when competing against women.

In life its terribly unfair for her, but I think she should have taken her medal and left the sport.

Unfortunately this has become a social argument instead of a PE argument. She has built in Performance Enhancers and a life time of masculinity built in. Though Mutola was a strong one too.

Is this really true? Or is it just guesses? I just don't think she should be discriminated against if this hasn't been proven. If it is proven, I don't understand why the IAAF would say it's okay... Politics you say.

Start with Mike Hurst of the smh breaking the news ands folllow the trail from there.

All political.

One reason why I am totally irreverant now-a-days.

maybe mutola, jelimo, and semenya are alike in this respect (there have been reports about the latter two) and only the latter two have been subject to some silent deal concerning hormone treatments.

The arguments that Semenya should not be allowed to compete are:

1. She is good.

2. She doesn't look like a standard female distance runner.

3. We have repeated enough rumors that they must be true.

4. She doesn't celebrate like a woman.

The more nuanced arguments now say that she is a socialized woman but biologically a man. These argument cut against some of the others (flexing after a race—which is not a biological response) and should be considered absurd on their face. Absolutely nobody no here has any scientific data about Semenya. Instead, they rely on rumors which must be true because they were not denied (logic that might work on a 5th grader but hopefully not adults).

In the end the attacks on Semenya are the same as they have always been. She improved a lot and ran fast (unlike Maria Mutola) and she doesn't look right (unlike Jelimo). That there is no criticism that I have seen about Mutola or Jelimo suggests what we already know: the people who go onto LetsRun to bash professional athletes are just petty.

Posters here would rather say that woman who runs faster than 1:58 while a teenager (like Jelimo, or Alison Felix whose 22.11 as a HSer was the world leading time) or improves a lot (again, like Jelimo) should be considered a high school boy for competition purposes. Or if a woman doesn't look like a distance runner and does well (Mutola) she should not be allowed to compete. Alluding to rumors as scientific proof is preposterous. Likewise, explaining the differences between men and woman then asserting that Semenya has an advantage makes unsubstantiated assumptions.

Claiming that Semenya looks like a man and therefore is a man falls apart when one looks outiside of distance running. I am sure that women in the shot, discus, and hammer would be thrilled to hear that they are only socialized women but really men.

In the end all that we do know is that the people who conducted the scientific tests have allowed Semenya to compete. They have the data, we do not. Making up contrary data, or asserting the Semenya is on hormone treatment but because she is still running well so must still be cheating are not rational fact-based arguments but instead based on fantasy and prejudice.

Yeah, see that's what I was getting at, but I think you said it better.

In life I thnk you are the rule follower type. Not the investigative reporter type. You'd prefer the answer to be clean and clear.

None of that diatribe has any meaning. All social BS and "listen to the officials." The facts are the head of the SA sports federation who lied and BSA'd and covered her results up pre the last WC, has been thrown out of office and charged criminally.

Years from now they will let everyone know, what many of us already think.

Sport has becoem too political and social enginering has devalued fair play.

If you want some quotes that should scare you about our fearless leaders read the article about the Jewish guy who refused tho go to Berlin, and track down the official quotes from Avery Brundage. They will horrify you.

This is all political expedience.

Brundage shamelessly said, "I have not heard of anything to indicate discrimination of any race or religion" in Germany. He warned that "certain Jews must now understand that they cannot use these Games as a weapon in their boycott against the Nazis," alleged a conspiracy of Communists and Jews to organize a boycott and, even after the Games, said the Nazi showcase had contributed to "international peace and harmony."

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Here's an example of officialdom. He also said that he didn't care how the Germans treated their citizens.

And of course the US wasn't a lot better in those areas either.

I don't trust anything but my own eyes. If their lips are moving they're covering up something.