LV 3:59.72!!!!!!

I am very excited about American distance running..

Lukas ran a awesome race with negative splits.

Yea, Richard I wouldn't put them down with only modest

P.R.'s myself of 4:22 mile, 15:12 5Km and 31:52 10Km and that was in the early 1990's. At 44 and 250 lbs. I would be happy with a sub 8 minute mile. 100 lbs heavier than my race weight!! I lift and jog. Old Runners never died they just fade away... ha-ha

If the weather would of been better we might of seen A. Mudd, J. Oshier and E. Cheserak (spelling?) break the 4 minute mile in the same race..

Jim Ryun said that this is only the 2nd time a High Schooler has broken the 4 minute barrier in a all High School Race.

I just hope that Centrowitz, Wheating, Fernandez, Rupp and any others that have potential go to that next level.

I am from Minnesota and Ben Blankenship is coming around..

Jayhawk wrote:

#1 high school distance runner is still Jim Ryun. Olympian as a high school junior, American record holder in the mile as a high school senior beating the Olympic Gold Medalist in the process. And as for #2, Gerry Lindgren, LV and Webb don't even come close. Personally I would take Webb as #3 but Lukas is right there.

Ryun cannot be #1. Webb was faster than him at every distance. This sport is about time.

Lindgren vs. LV: better XC runner- LV, 2mile- LV, 1mile- LV...all Lindgren has is the 5K which is rarely run.

Lukas just WINS and if he is in the race at the end he is not afraid to mix it up with the Pros like the Boston Road Mile that was tactically slow..

Even when he tries to run a record in the 2 mile last year and blows up and still runs a respectable time, that is impressive.

I will say LV is the most versatile HS distance runner in US history. Whether he is greater than Ryun is a toss up cause its different eras. Ryun and Lindgren with their Olympic credentials and world class times might be over LV but in LV's era everyone is so much faster. But consider this in the internet age: What HS runner delivered super times with the press and internet on his ass. LV broke the 2 mile in a pro race knowing everyone expected him to do it then proceeded to call his shot and tell everyone he should run a sub 4 and he did. I think German might be in the running but is not because he has no major XC titles. Ritz couldn't run 8:29 or 3:59 and he ran in era where Alan Webb ran sub 4 so he had fast comp to run against but couldn't do it. I'm certain Ryun and Webb might have run 8:29 but they didn't. I'm pretty sure LV could have taken both Ryun and Webb in XC. I think LV is superior if you consider all distances. That doesn't take away from the fact that Ryun is the greatest miler of all time until we get another world class miler in HS which Webb came close but not on the level of Ryun (time wise but not world class beat Peter Snell wise). LV is the best across the board, considering all distances together.

he's up there wrote:

In terms of just modern day athletes I'd say:

1. Webb

2. LV

3. Ritz

4/5. German/Rupp

1. Lukas V.

2. Ritz

3. Webb

4. Rupp

5. German

I think when comparing him to Ryun, it is definitely important to realize the difference between the eras. No American high school student will ever do either of the following 1) break the American record for any distance 2) be ranked top 5 in the world in any event; competition is just too stiff at the upper levels. That's important because no one will EVER live up to some of Ryun's accomplishments as a result. I agree with many that times mean a lot less than winning competitive races, but the real reason for me that Ryun stays number one is his ridiculous times. They are simply mind boggling.

But let's be realistic. Lukas has stomped the competition from mile to cross, for basically 3 years. He has run amazing times and he has beaten fantastic competition (those pretending otherwise are nuts; did you SEE that indoor 2-mile?? or hell, this particular mile). Realistically, some of his peers are among the best of all-time.

I think he compares better to Ryun than to Webb or Ritz. I'd say:

Ryun

Lukas

Lindgren (that indoor 2-mile is as ridiculous as 3:55 really)

Webb

There is a curse for breaking the 4 min mile in HS.

The Waterboy wrote:

Verzbicas is now hands down the greatest high school runner

Double champ at footlocker

First to ever do the nike-footlocker double

NR in 2 mile, 3000m, and indoor 5000m.

5th high schooler to break 4

First to ever do the triple at indoor nats

If he wanted to he could break Rupp's NR in the 5000m if he ran USA nats, but he's already proven himself to be the greatest. All he needed was a sub 4 mile which he now has

Verzbicas is not the greatest high school runner. Not even close. He'd have to medal at an international competition (Ritz) or beat world-class runners at an international distance (Lindgren).

Verzbicas had a great run today. He broke 4 under some lousy conditions. No, he's not as good a miler as Ryun was at that age. So what? He's a better distance runner. Ryun was a better middle distance runner. Again, so what? Lukas isn't even really a miler per se. He's a 5k runner with tremendous potential. Just give him his due.

Who cares what you do in HS. Its all about what you do in college and professional running. Alan Webb was a 3:53 miler in HS and only got down to 3:48... I'm pretty sure he started out in HS better than someone like Hicham El, but who's the world record holder? Nothing personal against Webb he's still an amazing runner and to even run sub 4 is an amazing thing to be able to do. Congrats to Lukas, hope the best to him in college so maybe we can get some gold medals in distance coming back to US.

Running isn't simply about time. If that was the case Ron Clarke would have a wall full of gold medals. If you are really a fan of the sport and a judge of its history you must do more than just look at a stop watch. The lack of sense of history for the sport by some posters is embarrassing. When you consider the greatest, it's a combination of era, times runs, competition beat, and titles.

Jim Ryun was the national champion at the mile as a high school senior. Alan Webb wasn't even close. And here's the real difference between Jim Ryun 1965 and Alan Webb 2001. The 1965 Ryun, heck even the 84 Ryun, would have stood a real chance of making the 2000 Olympic team given his kick. Webb wouldn't even make it to the finals.

Put Ryun against Snell on the Eugene surface that Webb ran on in 2001 and I dare say that the race would have been two to three seconds faster which puts Ryun at 3:52 or 3:53. Webb was a great high school miler. Ryun is the greatest. He overshadows Webb in the number of sub 3:42 1500's and sub 4 miles.

And as for Lindgren, he was a sprained ankle away from being an Olympic medalist at 10000 meters.

My apologies... I meant 64 Ryun not 84... although the 84 at age 37 was still running a decent mile, of course, by no means at a national caliber but not bad for an older runner!

I think most of the people who post on these boards are too young and can only see so far.

It is like trying to compare the Green Bay Packers of today with that of the 1960's, or comparing The 1920's Yankees with the 1990's Yankees. Or Mark Spitz versus Michael Phelps.

You are only looking at times. You say Webb beat Ryun's time so he is the greatest HS miler of all time. That is BS. Ryun was well beyond Webb. Even with matching times. 5 sub 4's verses 2. Sub 4 as a junior.

You have to look at how an athlete compares with his generation and where the world was at the time. Ryun was world class. Ranked 4th in the world for crying out loud.

They didn't even have a slew of the types of races that you give today's athlete's credit for then. Today's athletes have better facilities, better tracks, better coaching methods that have evolved over time.

To compare Webb or LV with what Ryun did they would have to be running near a 3:30 1,500 and make Olympic teams, or WC teams. Not gonna happen. What Ryun did will likely never be duplicated again.

Now was this the National Championship mile race?

because it was a different era that allowed for a high schooler to compete internationally. Obviously Ryun is incredible and is certainly in the conversation, but as an overall distance runner i think LV is better.

I disagree with this. One day there will be another Ryun and we will know it when it happens. We will have an American kid that beats the Kiprops and Kiplagats. When that happens we will know, and it will happen again. Its not no now but we are close. Its a matter of time just like with the british.

Those of you who are comparing athletes from distant eras. Not only do you degrade and are disrespectful of their career efforts but display total --- ignorance.

Gookinaid wrote:

Those of you who are comparing athletes from distant eras. Not only do you degrade and are disrespectful of their career efforts but display total --- ignorance.

I kinda agree with this. Its like comparing Jordan and Lebron or Wilt. Its stupid really. I will say this: LV is f***ing amazing though.

I didn't want to say this but I will.

Did any of you ardent followers notice something about the hype. I'm not going to mention the runners name, but at least two of the made the claim (youtube interviews) that LV was better than them. Undeniably LV is great for the sport - inspiring but I think his competitors should give themselves credit and not be so submissive. I guess it all boils down to personal dignity.