Whoops! George Hincapie gives up Lance

Is it a level playing field if you have the best doctors and quite possibly the most funds? Sure, everyone could have sought out the best but what if Lance was only the winner because he had the best doctors and drug schedule but wasn't really the most talented and hardest working? That would kind of shoot holes in your rant and it is quite likely to be the truth.

I bet your argument closely resembles Lance Armstrong's rationalizations (in his own mind) about his doping. It's a similar deal with Barry Bonds. If you believe the book "Game of Shadows," Bonds was clean up through the late 90s, but he got jealous when the nation idolized McGwire and Sosa during 1998 homerun chase. Apparently, almost everyone in baseball knew that Sosa and McGwire were on roids. Bonds decided to "level the playing field" by starting his own PED regime. I think that Bonds and Armstrong have very similar personalities. Bonds is disgraced, and Armstrong is about to be disgraced, but they'll probably both die thinking that their PED use was completely justified and consistent with the "spirit" of their respective sports.

firefly wrote:

wow. hincapie is the only one of lance's former teammates i would actually believe

Same here. Call me crazy, but I have been a lance believer for a long time but if George really did give him up. I'm no longer a believer.

Can't make it legal. You'd have people dying from their PED use.

Fletcher Christian wrote:

Can't make it legal. You'd have people dying from their PED use.

In the book "from Lance to Landis", early epo users were dying in their sleep from blood clots. It seems they have it down to a science now.

Question: how would a blood transfusion affect your health?

That seems to me to be the least health altering method used by the cyclists.

ecin wrote:

firefly wrote:

wow. hincapie is the only one of lance's former teammates i would actually believe

Same here. Call me crazy, but I have been a lance believer for a long time but if George really did give him up. I'm no longer a believer.

If it's taken you this long to finally realise he was a doper you honestly are crazy.

"...football can't be far behind..."

There far too much money to be made in football. You will NEVER see a dragged out witch hunt in football for PEDs. Even though PEDs are far more involved in football than ANY other sport from HS through the pros. So much is made of cycling's problem or track's problem or even baseball's problem with PEDs...it's child's play compared to football.

If you bust up the NFL then it trickle's down to college and THAT is the bread and butter, the cash cow. Networks live and die on college football. College's live and die on college football. It won't EVER be touched. A network program that goes after the NFL risks losing billions of dollars. Not gonna happen.

Alan

bladerunner wrote:

Fletcher Christian wrote:

Can't make it legal. You'd have people dying from their PED use.

In the book "from Lance to Landis", early epo users were dying in their sleep from blood clots. It seems they have it down to a science now.

Question: how would a blood transfusion affect your health?

That seems to me to be the least health altering method used by the cyclists.

Too many RBC's in the blood. Blood moves too slowly. Clots occur. NOW...actual blood transfusion would be different as you are transfusing not only RBC but also plasma.

Alan

"He gave testimony to this federal witch hunt." -- You apparently don't understand the meaning of that term.

"Now, he ruins himself and Armstrong" -- maybe he has a conscience.

But how many people decided not to cheat and left the sport early when they could have cheated and been great? How many never received access to the best drugs? Even Hamilton said not everyone on US Postal got the same drugs he did in 2000. How many got caught and banned from cycling that could have beaten lance if they never were caught? Maybe Lance's drugs boosted his performance by a greater percentage than others?

too many holes in your argument to keep going. We do not know what lance would have done if it were a completely clean tour

adsfadf wrote:

But how many people decided not to cheat and left the sport early when they could have cheated and been great? How many never received access to the best drugs? Even Hamilton said not everyone on US Postal got the same drugs he did in 2000. How many got caught and banned from cycling that could have beaten lance if they never were caught? Maybe Lance's drugs boosted his performance by a greater percentage than others?

too many holes in your argument to keep going. We do not know what lance would have done if it were a completely clean tour

This is the correct answer. There are many many clean cyclists and they deserved better.

Alan,

Love the posts but there is some anecdotal evidence and personal experience that in my opinion does not support this claim.

As for the personal experience, I was a walk-on to one of biggest college football programs in the country (arguably the biggest). As far as steroids go, all programs have ncaa drug testing and many have independent drug testing that can be performed by the school. Steroids were so demonized that either a.) No one did them or b.) those that did were extremely secretive.

There are thousands or journalists that would love to take down one of the big programs just for the ratings and attention that it would receive. Any evidence would be blood in the water.

I would think that sports that dont usually follow a college path (baseball and cycling) often have more members accused and guilty of doping.

So, if Lance is such a good doper (as most everyone assumes), then why did he suck so much in the marathon? He must reeaally be a poor endurance athlete for that to have happened!!

Disclaimer: not intended to be a serious post...

ianam wrote:

"He gave testimony to this federal witch hunt." -- You apparently don't understand the meaning of that term.

"Now, he ruins himself and Armstrong" -- maybe he has a conscience.

I do call it a witch hunt. This is not what the federal gov't should be doing. They wasted 10 million to get Barry Bonds on a very minor charge (misleading testimony).

The sport of cycling largely takes place overseas. The governing body never implicated Armstrong. Therefore, as far as his contract with the Postal service team, he lived up to the contract. Why should the federal gov't decide the governing body of a sport didn't do it's job and reinvestigate the whole issue?

I don't believe George Hincapie has a conscience regarding ped's. If he did, he would have come forward on his own. He was probably given immunity to testify. He sees what's happened to Bonds and Clemens. He told the truth because he was forced to.

I can't believe so many people want to protect Lance even though he's a cheater, liar, ruined many lives, and brain-washing his fans.

However, when it came to Barry Bonds, even though he's also a liar, many people hate him.

Lesson here is, if you're going to cheat, make sure you set up nice charities, and survive cancer(Even if roids and PEDs may have been correlated to getting cancer in the first place).

Did Hincapie talk to CBS? Are you sure that they have the story 100% correct; what is their source (committing a felony, I think) and are they telling exactly the story of the testimony?

26mi is on to something.

so the article linked to this forum begins by saying:

"Now, according to a report by "60 Minutes," Hincapie has joined other members of Armstrong's inner circle in claiming the seven-time Tour de France winner used performance-enhancing drugs."

So this part is a bit confusing:

"Later, Hincapie released a statement through his attorney: "I can confirm to you that I never spoke with '60 Minutes.' I have no idea where they got their information. As I've said in the past, I continue to be disappointed that people are talking about the past in cycling instead of the future. As for the substance of anything in the '60 Minutes' story, I cannot comment on anything relating to the ongoing investigation."

basically you have one news outlet saying that another news outlet thinks someone who refused to speak with them implicated someone else in PED use. Seems spotty. On a completely related note, I think lance used.

I would just like to point out that I beat Lance (smoked the bastard, in fact) at both Boston and New York. Then again, he didn't have a chance, what with the 15 lbs. of shorts/coolots/capris and beer-muscle he was sporting.

You guys are believing into Lance's benefit of the doubt strategy. That's the strategy he's using by questioning CBS's reporting on Hincapie. Don't worry, truth will come out about Hincapie's testimony where Lance won't be able to refute it. Then he'll be screwed.