Zola Budd, a class act. Mary Slamey, a bitter rhymes with witch

You clearly missed the other video linked to in this thread.Idiot.

I give up. People are going to see what they want to see. I have been an athlete, coach and official for many years and I have no doubt that Zola impeded Mary and that is why she fell. I honestly have a hard time believing the people that say they can't see it. Is it really the dislike of Mary? I don't like Mary either, but it doesn't change the facts of how the race played out.

I also feel sorry for Zola and how she was treated, both during the race and after. I think that is one reason why some people started siding with her, because they saw how badly she felt and how much of a witch Mary was being. Anyway, Zola has moved on and is in a much better place in her life, Mary not so much. Bitterness never gets a person anywhere in life.

Astro good link. That does clarify it and Zola after passing drifted back in Mary's lane too soon. Zola was at fault.

Astro wrote:

Here is the video from further back for those that haven't seen it. It is very clear that Zola never had established her position in lane one. As Zola drifts in to lane one with out enough clearance, Mary does try to slow down and avoid her. Again, it is pretty obvious what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JziXi_NS3YY

Astro wrote:

I give up. People are going to see what they want to see. I have been an athlete, coach and official for many years and I have no doubt that Zola impeded Mary and that is why she fell. I honestly have a hard time believing the people that say they can't see it. Is it really the dislike of Mary? I don't like Mary either, but it doesn't change the facts of how the race played out.

Rather than speculating about people's motives, you might want to specify the timepoint(s) where the video shows what you claim it shows.

Just a couple of things:

Ms. Slaney, to me, is not real likeable at least publicly and her hissy fit after her fall did not help that impression.

During the interview posted in the first post in this thread she does say she holds herself responsible for putting herself in that position.

I'm not sure Budd cut in. Her left leg swings wide kind of naturally and I think she slowed and Slaney clipped her leg. There's no angle which really shows her cutting in. There's some assumption she did but not much evidence.

Bob Dobbs wrote:

Rather than speculating about people's motives, you might want to specify the timepoint(s) where the video shows what you claim it shows.

Again, if you can't see it, I am not sure what you are watching. She doesn't have a big enough lead after passing to drift into lane one. Once she does this, Mary chops her stride and slows up and then gets tripped by Zola, who never had established a lead and had no right to be in lane one.

I guess I didn't give up. Hopefully aftert this post I will.

I honestly don't see Zola drifting. I see her holding her position on the right of lane 1 and Mary trying to push through on the inside. Mary whacked Zola once earlier too. That's also what I saw when I saw the race live. There's a lot of physicality and tactics in middle distance racing and it is part of the race. The men's races are even more physical with large packs and dangerous boxes (ask Lagat). Both runners liked to run from the lead and both runners experience running in a pack was limited. I guess because my eyes don't see what Astro sees I must be a Mary hater. But that is what I see.

Flash forward a whole bunch of years to the Olympic Trials in '96 in Atlanta. The women's 5000 final. Pack running. Slaney once again can't handle being in close quarters and finds herself tripping over Amy Rudolph while Lynn Jennings is kicking away for the win.

Slaney never learned the first thing about how to run in a close pack and she was never any good at it. Middle distance running is a physical contact sport in the elite leagues and you either learn how to race in it or you don't. Slaney never did. All of you who are talking about rules and lane 1 and cutting in don't know what you are talking about. Maybe in Scranton, PA those things are enforced but at the Olympics? You gotta take the space you want and defend the space you have. That's what hands and elbows are for. Slaney never figured it out.

Agree with you 100%.

Maybe Mary should have run the 400m or less. She coulda run in her own lane all day.

When i lived in Eugene I think it was in 83 my team ran a workout with Mary to give her more experience with pack running. Mary usually always trained alone on the track.

Her coach would tell us to run a lap in 65 and she was susposed to run with us. Instead no matter what the pace we were told to run Mary would race ahead and not allow us near her. It was a waste of time. She also didn't seem very greatful for us going out of our way to help with her training.

so many Mary 'EXPERTS" here, who knew?

Yorkshire Pud wrote:

Watching the footage, I fail to see how anyone could hold Budd at fault for Slaney's falling down. It is incumbent upon the runner in the rear position to watch where they're going. The runner in front does not have eyes in the back of their head.

Had Budd egregiously cut Slaney off in an overly aggressive maneuver, I could see blaming Budd. This situation was nothing of that sort.

I remember how Budd was vilified after this race and painted as the evil, barefoot saboteur. Judging by the footage, Slaney had only herself to blame. Tough break, but that's the way it goes. Don't point fingers at someone else!

I only read the first page of this thread, admittedly, but after searching for more footage of the race, I actually have to disagree with this.

I agree that Slaney comes off as...well, as a terribly bitter human being in that interview. Perhaps she is, I've never met her. But if you watch what happens just before the turn, Slaney is in the lead, with Budd making a pass on the outside of lane 1 heading into the straightaway. As the turn is being passed through, Budd, who is still passing and definitely not yet a full stride length ahead of Slaney, comes off the turn having already begun to crowd Slaney by sliding towards the inside of the first lane. If you are passing into another runner's position, especially if it is on the inside lane, it is up to you to cleanly pass. It is not up to the other runner to slow down and allow you to pass in front of them, giving up that inside lane.

Bud was trying to TAKE the inside lane and leader's position from Slaney, not the other way around. Slaney was not trying to move into Budd's position from behind (as everyone seems to be implying). Rather, Budd was trying to move into Slaney's position from what was essentially her side (Budd's torso may have been ahead of Slaney's, but her back kick certainly wasn't). There was not enough room for them both in that inside space as Budd was continuing her pass after the turn, and unless one of them yielded, someone was going to fall. I wouldn't expect the inside lane leader in the race up to that point (Slaney), to be the one to do this.

I don't think Budd intentionally tried to trip up Decker at all, but she also wasn't making anything that resembled a clean pass. As I think Marty Liquori suggested during the telecast, Budd, who was running barefoot, was relatively inexperienced on the track. The incident could very well have turned out the other way, with Budd getting the worst of Slaney's foot coming down to the track. That wasn't a tactical move so much as a really dangerous mistake on Budd's part...at least that is the way that it looked to me.

Slow Mo of incident starts @ 5:02:

Bob Dobbs wrote:

You cannot tell anything about Budd's lane position from that angle. And there's nothing to suggest Decker tried to yield. If anything, it looks like she deliberately refused to give any ground in order to hold Budd away from the rail. She just lost that gamble badly.

I too think Decker was an amazing talent. I saw her win the 3,000 at the Trials that year, and she was indeed in fantastic form (although she got kicked down nicely by Ruth Wysocki in the 1500). But I'm also old enough to remember the 14-year-old princess who threw a relay baton at a Soviet competitor during a tantrum at a US-USSR meet -- because she felt the Soviet cut her off. Seems she never really grew up or learned how to cope rationally with elbow-to-elbow racing.

Bud, I am sorry, but in WHAT UNIVERSE is the inside runner of a track race supposed to yield to a passing runner in the outside? Are you serious?

Again, why should Decker, who was in the lead and established in the inside of lane one, be EXPECTED to yield to a passing runner?

Next time someone cuts in on me during a track race, I will be sure to slow down and give away my position without making them earn it by speeding up and actually passing me before they try to occupy the same space on the inside of the lane.

Yeah...right.

where does anyone see her cutting in? Zola makes a pass about 50m before the fall, but stays in 1.5 the whole time. She never moves to the rail, and stays the same distance from the rail the whole time. At this point, she is in the lead and Decker runs into the back of her. Either don't let her pass in the first place, or back off her heels after she passes you; she has every right to slow down after she makes a pass.

Agreed. Budd is in the lead for many meters and I see no evidence she moved to the rail. I always thought Decker panicked about being boxed and tried to finesse her way back to level and it turned it into a balancing act on the rail. People run that close all the time. Sometimes they fall and it is noone's fault.

wilfredo wrote:

where does anyone see her cutting in? Zola makes a pass about 50m before the fall, but stays in 1.5 the whole time. She never moves to the rail, and stays the same distance from the rail the whole time. At this point, she is in the lead and Decker runs into the back of her. Either don't let her pass in the first place, or back off her heels after she passes you; she has every right to slow down after she makes a pass.

Look at Slaney's left foot before the collision that causes the fall. That is her inside foot. It is about as close as you can get to the rail as you can possibly get without stepping on top of it with your next step.

Budd on the other hand is behind Slaney going into the turn, and if she indeed maintained her passing spot in the lane exactly, there would have been no collision, as at some point they were both occupying lane one without contact as Budd moved from 2nd to being just ahead of Slaney with about 1/2 of her stride. There was a collision however, which means that either Slaney moved out to clip Budd from behind with her right foot, or Budd moved inside to clip Slaney with the back kick of her right foot.

I don't think you can argue having watched the clip, that Budd's torso (a crucial part of the clip you can only see a bit below it) is ever far enough ahead of Slaney's that with her stride fully extended, there would have been no contact had they been the same distance from that rail.

So who moved to occupy the same space as the other and create the collision? Well it is VERY hard to tell what is happening with Budd's left leg coming out of the turn due to the angle of the telecast, but much easier to tell where Slaney's left foot (inside foot) is relative to the rail.

Slaney, as Mary Liquori states while watching the slow motion recap, is as close to the rail as possible, and thus did not come out to cause the collision with Budd. Budd must have moved inside after her initial pass (when she and Slaney both were still able to occupy the lane without contact), thereby causing the collision.

in that second paragraph I meant to write "or Budd moved inside to clip Slaney with the back kick of her LEFT* foot".

my bad.

I don't know maybe I just can't see it. the slowmo clip isn't long enough, but i dont see any sudden movements out of budd. there was also almost 4 minutes left. get up and finish the race

Look at ZB's left foot starting at 5:08 and you will see that she was firmly in the middle of lane one, with barely a half-stride advantage, and if anything slowing slightly. At 5:18 ZB's stumble almost causes her left foot to hit the rail. Clearly Budd was illegal, and should have accelerated to make that move.

The problem here is that the "Innocent Kid" wronged the "Primadonna". It should always be the "bad" people who are in the wrong. FWIW Slaney's histrionics possibly cost her the ruling.

As an aside, Lynn Williams was a babe!