How could the founding fathers sign the declaration of independence?

Cath, Trum wrote:

3/4th of the European population were slaves under the Mongol Hordes 1200AD-1500AD who re-mapped the entire ethic makeup into Euro-Mongol half-breeds like my family who came emigrated from Poland to Cleveland 100 years ago.

Slavery was introduced to Africa by the Pope and the Catholic Church who commissioned the explorers of Portugal and Spain.

Truman re-introduced U.S. Slavery to Palestine in the 1940s by capturing and imprisoning Arab Christians and Arab Muslims and giving their land to Holocaust surviving Jews. There's some 6 Million slaves still held by the US puppet occupation regime in Palestine.

Every "fact" in your post is false.

Perfect score.

The 3rd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution prohibits, in peacetime, the quartering of soldiers in private homes without the owner's consent. This amendment was take from the British Quartering Act which was written to prevent the family horrors which the Mongol Hordes inflicted upon Europe for several centuries. Mongols Armies toured the homes of European families on a rigorous yearly schedule forcing their soldiers upon the wives, women and girls, demanding money, gifts, food, other services. The Mongol soldiers were above the laws of the conquered Europeans whom they considered aboriginal savages.

Huh ? The British Quartering Act forced the U.S. colonialists to accept British soldiers. The British slept in the barns and guest quarters but also used the opportunity to take advantage of the women. The British as bad as they were, were far more tame than the Mongols, who raped and pillaged Russia, Iran, Poland, etc.

Lysander Spooner, 19th cent. writer & lawyer, argued that slavery was unconstitutional on 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms) grounds. IIRC he argued that due to the inherent imcompatibilty of being a slave and bearing arms, slavery must be unconstitutional.

Spooner has been very popular among libertarian-types the past few years.

towhee wrote:

Lysander Spooner, 19th cent. writer & lawyer, argued that slavery was unconstitutional on 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms) grounds. IIRC he argued that due to the inherent imcompatibilty of being a slave and bearing arms, slavery must be unconstitutional.

Spooner has been very popular among libertarian-types the past few years.

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WTF does the right to bear arms have to do with slavery? I can see why this guy is popular with libertarian types -- his mind is defective

How could Obama give tax cuts to the rich and yet still believe they will cause a huge increase in the deficit? It's called compromise. Several founding fathers wanted to outlaw slavery in the Constitution and probably hated the final compromise, but they didn't exactly have a choice. Conservatives have always been willing to sacrifice the country for their ideology.

Political Philosophy wrote:

Many of them didn't believe in slavery you prick. Slavery was in place throughout the world for thousands of years before the signing of the DoI. The founding of America was a radical experiment in freedom which eventually led to the abolition of slavery for the first time in history.

Iceland abolish slavery in 1117, Russia in 1723, Scotland in 1778, and England in 1833 (with some exceptions for overseas colonies). The US was one of the last countries to abolish slavery.

What's next? Are you going to claim that the US was the first country to let women vote ? The first democracy?

towhee wrote:

Lysander Spooner, 19th cent. writer & lawyer, argued that slavery was unconstitutional on 2nd Amendment (right to bear arms) grounds. IIRC he argued that due to the inherent imcompatibilty of being a slave and bearing arms, slavery must be unconstitutional.

Or the right to bear arms is unconstitutional. There are two ways to fix the problem. Another way is to recognize that that's a stupid argument. Slaves weren't considered people under the constitution and the the right to bear arms applied only to people (I can't find a reference as to whether or not women and children could bear arms under the law originally).

The US abolised slavery within it's national boundaries but still enslaves millions of Christian and Muslims in Israel and pays Lebanon and Egypt handsomely to enslave millions of Palestinian Muslims.

Gosh, this is quite a thread, I must say.

Great thread...some seriously good discussion. But, I thought I'd throw some brevity and fun into it. I think it all went down something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw_1I1oYApw

Hoovis

Leave it to the left to say something as disgusting and distorted as the notion that America was founded on institutionalized racism. Slavery existed throughout the world for thousands of years - for all of human history - prior to the founding of America. Within 100 years after the founding of America, it had been abolished. And it was only because the Founding Fathers signed the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights that racial slavery was able to be abolished. Yeah, some of the founders owned slaves. You ridiculous leftists, whose mentality is to hold "society" as your god, would have been the most ardent supporters of slavery if you had lived during a time when it was widely accepted. At least Jefferson, et. all. acknowledged that it was wrong. You guys wouldn't have.

That's a nice sentiment but it is wrong. Many of the Founding Fathers were strongly against slavery. Adams and Hamilton and ben Franklin to name a few. Others were strongly in favor of it such as Madison. Jefferson did everything he could to maintain slavery. I don't know if he thought it was right or wrong, but he liked the laws allowing slavery and he liked having slaves. (Actually Jefferson was very materialistic and actually bought embargoed items from England)

Rational Economics wrote:

Leave it to the left to say something as disgusting and distorted as the notion that America was founded on institutionalized racism. Slavery existed throughout the world for thousands of years - for all of human history - prior to the founding of America. Within 100 years after the founding of America, it had been abolished. And it was only because the Founding Fathers signed the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights that racial slavery was able to be abolished. Yeah, some of the founders owned slaves. You ridiculous leftists, whose mentality is to hold "society" as your god, would have been the most ardent supporters of slavery if you had lived during a time when it was widely accepted. At least Jefferson, et. all. acknowledged that it was wrong. You guys wouldn't have.

Western nations have only abolished slavery within their borders. Western nations fully endorse, fund, and support slavery outside of their borders. Israel, Russia, China are good examples of slave nations with considerable investments from Western nations.

Slavery existed throughout the world for thousands of years - for all of human history - prior to the founding of America. Within 100 years after the founding of America, it had been abolished

Conundrum wrote:

That's a nice sentiment but it is wrong. Many of the Founding Fathers were strongly against slavery. Adams and Hamilton and ben Franklin to name a few.

Franklin was a slave owner for at least 40 years. He also profited by advertising slave sales and and notices for rewards for return of runaways. He also participated in slave sales. I cannot find definitive information about whether he freed King and George or sold them--sources differ. There are other slaves mentioned at various times, including several that Franklin directed to have freed by his executors--although best I can tell they preceded him in death. At the time of the Revolution he defended slavery as a positive good.

Franklin only became an abolitionist in 1785 upon his return from France. It's unclear if he continued to own slaves after that time or not. He refused to take the cause of abolitionism to the Constitutional Convention despite the fact that he was head of the Pennsylvania abolitionist society by 1787.

People are complicated, be careful of assuming what you know and not looking closely at the actual record.

Slavery is alive and well in the U.S. today. And no, I am not talking about figuratively.

There are at least tens of thousands of slaves in the U.S. today, possibly hundreds of thousands. Almost all of them were born in other countries and most of them are forced into prostitution.

The thing we must all remember is the the DoI, BoR, and US Const are only pieces of paper. We must live up to the principles stated in those documents and extend freedom and democracy to those outside of our nation. Today, we as the nation of the United States of America are getting a failing grade. We are the major offenders of genocide, zionism, and imperialism subjecting our will, without due process upon, without consent, upon the 2 Billion members of the Islamic World.

True franklin was a convert later in life but Adams and Hamilton were strong abolitionists.

Washington became a convert late in his life too. Jefferson fought for slavery his entire life.

Not really true about Jefferson. Jefferson was full of contradictions, or to be less kind, hypocrisy. He was actually an emancipationist. He had wanted to emancipate his slaves upon his death (as Washington did) but couldn't due to being in debt.

Here is a quote from Jefferson:

"I think a change already perceptible, since the origin of the present revolution. The spirit of the master is abating, that of the slave rising from the dust, his condition mollifying, the way, I hope, preparing, under the auspices of heaven, for a total emancipation;

"