you dont know what the lion doing in the wilds of east Africa even without any training they can run <13m , even any farmers kide do that, it is is what you eat makes you "dedeb"
Really?? wrote:
Kind of indirect to the topic, but how could a runner even possibly achieve a 14 minute 5000m with only 12 months of previous training?
Show us links to those under 18s running in camps! If you find them then we will believe. Strange that the people claiming that the child runners are numerous in the camps, are people who have not been to Kenya. Go there and you will see that Juniors are not allowed in the camps.
Yes, there is corruption in Kenyan society, but this does not include running camps for Juniors where no money would be made.
In addition, the managers of the camps are all foreigners, and they do not allow child runners anywhere near the camps. They are prohibited.
Education is highly regulated in Kenya, and parents who do not send their kids to school are punished with prohibitive fines. The vast majority of kids go to school, and you even have kids in their late teens sitting in Elementary school such is the zeal for education there.
Why is Kenya one of the fastest developing economies? Because of education.
Once again, the only child runners are in the school system. One exception to this is the Kip Keino home in Eldoret which is a children's home, and there are some child runners there, but it is not a running camp.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today.
TALK- TALK- TALK- TALK - This whole thread is really about Lukas and what we need to see him do! Is he as “GOOD” as he seems to be? That high school indoor 5k record was incredibly “SOFT” and it was ripe for the picking! Ritz, Webb, Rupp, Hall or Fernandez could have easily taken down that record had they decided to run a competitive indoor 5k in high school. But they didn’t, it wasn’t in their schedule. Lukas’s victories at NXN and Footlocker were impressive this year but seemed somewhat hollow because of the slow times and lack of consistent competition. So many other guys ran faster earlier in the year and just couldn’t didn’t deliver for some stupid reason on those days!
It’s OK CORRAL TIME PEOPLE!!!!!
- SO, IF LUKAS IS AS TOUGH AS HE THINKS HE IS, THEN HE SHOULD PUT IT OUT THERE AND COMPETE AGAINST THE BEST AT THE IAAF JUNIOR WORLDS CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPIONSHIPS ON MARCH 20th 2011 IN PUNTA UMBRIA SPAIN!!!!!!! IT’S 8K AND STARTS AT NOON – NO PUSSY STROLLS CROSS THE LINE THIS TIME BUDDY - BE THERE OR YOU’RE A COMPLETE WHIMP!!!!
Ha ha I agree with that. U.S. Cross isn't all that great and it's extreamly obvious that a Kenyan kid could beat Lukas or really a bunch of African kids. I think it would be interesting to see him at World Junior Champs this year but I agree he would probably laze out.
Ghost,
Please learn how to read. I have been to, coached, befriended, and helped many Kenyan athletes.
There is plenty of money to be made on junior athletes. You realize that at 18 Kenyan athletes have won the world championship and every year run sub 333. So, you think these kids were not in the camps before they hit 18? You think the world youth games champ, a 3:34 1500m kid, isn't in a camp? or 90% of the junior world xc team? And a lot of these camps are not run by internationals. I'm not gonna call out names of camps that I know have 14 year olds in them, and I will also not call out athletes who I know who joined camps when they were very young.
Also in Kenya education isn't what you think. You are comparing city life, there aren't many of those in Kenya, to rural areas there are a ton of these.
These camps are willing to take advantage of any one they think they can make money on, they don't care what age.
In my opinion wrote:
First of all, you just cant compare Americans with East Africans. Do you understand that when there ages are in the SINGLE DIGITS SINGLE DIGITS some of them are doing 100 miles per week to school? Do you understand that thousands of kids are doing this and that Running is their national sport? They play almost no sports that don't involve running. All their games are running. They are genetically freaked people who have huge air capacities because they live at altitiude and when Kenyans run, THEY RUN. You have thousands, literally thousands, of kenyans that could break a sub-2:20 BECAUSE THEY SEE IT OUT LIKE IT IS THERE WHERE OUT OF POVERTY.
They run in training until they collaspe, even at young ages of 12 and 13 they run 3:20 marathons at altitiude in the hills. And thats not even the best, just some of the Kenyan Kids.
Do you seriously see American Kids running like that? Most play sports like soccer where, yeah, they can maybe run 8 minute miles for 3-4 miles if there in great shape for Soccer, but most dont run competitively until High School. The Kenyan and Ethopian kids already have a good 5-6 years on them anyway and even for people in Cross Country most of them dont even train as much as the Kenyan Kids. Numbers and time is what its all about. When you have that much running in Kenya, that much natural talent, your likely to get some insanely great Kenyan runners.
Lukas Verzbicas is an insanely talented runner. When we get a runner who runs 14:18 indoors when he's 15 you know that is talent. He only runs 60 mpw and swims and bikes alot of the time. Once(or hopefully) he switches from triing to professional running and actually starts pushing(we know he doesnt) then he will be there with the Africans. He might not be the best, and I highly highly doubt he'll be the next Gebrsalassie or Bekele, but no one wants to see another african win more titles.
___________________________________________________________
So hold on. Because Americans work less hard and have less running experience and just because they live in your country they are better then the Africans? I'm sick of everyone saying how Ritz, Alan, and Ryan are so great when if they were african they would barely get any credit at all. Don't get me wrong all of them are incredible runners, but why should they get any more credit then Kenyans? I thought running was a sport that everyone could participate in and that when someone beats someone they are better? I guess I was wrong though.
Seriously though why would someone think that because your an American and your running 3:50 mile than your better than an African running a 3:45-3:46 mile? And in my opinion watching runs at the World level are much better than watching The U.S.A. Track and Field Championships. Would you rather see the Olympic Games winner or a winner of the U.S.A. Track and Field Championships? Clearly most Americans these days would rather see the Track and Field Championships...So you guys can go watch your U.S.A. runners, but just in my opinion I think watching it on a world level is better. And if an American wins, great. If not, they don't.
Running IS NOT the national sport in Kenya. Soccer is, just like it is in most countries outside North America, Australia and Eastern Asia.
Yes, there are good Junior runners, but they do not train in camps. They train with coaches in the schools system from where they hail.
Show me links to child camps? There are none. Kenya is a highly regulated society, and even though there are fictitious birthdates, the school age runners are not allowed to enter the camps. This applies to Eldoret and Iten, two of the 'meccas' for runners in Kenya. Have not been to Kabsabet or Ngong Hills, but visitors tell me there are no child runners there either in the camp system.
Child camps are common in China, Japan and Korea, and mostly for other sports, not running (although they exist in China).
This myth about children running hundreds of miles has to be destroyed. It is nonsense. For every child who jogs to school, there are nine who walk there.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today.
Ghost,
Arguing with you hurts my brain. You have an IQ well under 100 and are clueless. I am glad you have taken two visits to Kenya and believe everything you are told. I could name more camps then you could imagine, but I'm not about to out any of them on a web site.
You say Kenya is highly regulated, then in the same sentence talk about fictitious birth certificates. That is like saying "Newark is a really safe place to live, if you can stay away from all the crime."
I'm done arguing with you cause you are like Hitler, when you are wrong you just say the same thing over and over again, but louder and with more passion. That still doesn't make it true.
And you didn't answer my question, how much money did Philip Maiyo con you into donating?
And yes I know, you are gonna say the same thing you have said in every post before this one. Save us all some time and just don't post.
Ghost, once again, you are wrong. Have You heard that a large amount of the Kenyan kids that grow up to be great runners do in fact drop out of school? Have you ever researched any professional Kenyan athletes? Clearly, you have, once again, been proven wrong.
And how do you expect us to find a link? You think they would openly say it on their website? Is your brain so incompetent to actually believe that? You think Kenyan Kids can self train themselves and somehow get themselves into a race with no money to run fast with no prior training partners or intense mileage structure? And you think they would run sub 13 without a Training Camp?
Someone here needs to not judge everything by their eyes and word of mouth.
The Kenyan kids who run super fast at age 15-16, are often older than their stated ages. This is to win championships at cross country and world cross. They are closer in age to 17 or 18 or even older.
When some Kenyans came to Canada to run in the Toronto area, doctors were intrigued by the fact that tests done on their bone structures (there are tests for those) did not match the ages given. In other words many Kenyans who wish to run overseas claim they are younger than they actually are, to gain attention. Because the younger you are, as a Kenyan, the more attention you will get from Universities, and recruiting countries like Qatar and Bahrain.
I spent long enough in both Iten and Eldoret to know that there are few, if any, child runners training on a regular basis. In fact, in Iten, on that old cinder track, which all the international runners use, located some 2km from the town center, no kids are allowed to run, during the times all those guys train there (many internationals).
Yes, children develop decent aerobic base, but there is no systematic program to develop kids at young ages. This would start at age 15 - 16 in the schools system.
Ironically, during my two visits to Assela, Ethiopia (the locale where Gebreselassie comes from) I saw much more children being trained by coaches, compared with Kenya. From 5.30am to about 8am, that stony track in Assela was besieged by hudreds of kids, from different clubs, training alongside the senior runners. In Bekoji, Ethiopia, were Ken Bekele comes from - same deal with many child runners.
Ethiopia is about 15 years behind Kenya in terms of development, and school dropouts are tolerated there. Not in Kenya.
When staying at the White Rock Hotel in Eldoret, any street kids there were quickly picked up by authorities and taken to reception centres. Not allowed. In Ethiopia, on the other hand, street kids are everywhere and tolerated. Kenya to Ethiopia is like - U.S. to Mexico, with much more development in the former.
Ghost in Saudi, wwww.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today.
Alright, I'll agree that there would probably be much more kid runners in Ethopia then Kenya. But even if Kipchoge was 21-22 when he was running in the Wc, do you really think he could start training at the age of 18 and just start running to get to the level he was and is at???
isthisaseriousquestion wrote:
the same reason you'd care more if someone from your state ran a 14:20 than if some guy from alaska ran 13:00. the same reason you'd care more if someone from your school ran 14:20 than if some guy across the state ran 13:00. the same reason you'd care more if your sibling ran 14:20 than if your teammate ran 13:00.
its selfish and tribal, but its fundamental human nature
Letsrun cares about Mottram and he lives half way around the world.
This just shows that some people on Letsrun are racist.
Actually Ralphy, that is a retarted comparison. If the US won the Olympic Gold at curling you still wouldn`t give a fiddler`s fart because it is only curling.
Americans only care about their own runners because they have given up on having internationally competitive juniors. When was the last time an American kid cracked the top 10 at WJXC?
Many Kenyans, within a year or two of training run classy times. It is sink or swim there. In Kenya, groups train together....on the morning (progressive) run, then at 10am on the track, or fartlek, plus occasional afternoon runs. Contrary to what many think, few Kenyans train three times a day, and those that do, don't do so every day. They may do so during training camps prior to World Cross, etc.
All the camps in Kenya are geared for adults, and those who have reached mature age. Certainly absolutely no pre pubertal kids are allowed anywhere near those camps.
When staying at the Lornah Kiplagat camp in 2008, I remember how mean the guards on duty were with the kids who came to look through the fence at the white 'muzungus' they (the kids) would be told to get lost. There is a pool at the camp, but don't think the kids would ever be invited for a dip.....and why should they, because that would open the floodgates. And Lornah camp is a for profit organization, not a charity. When I stayed there in 2008, they were charging 30 euros a day for board and lodging. Food was plentiful and natural, with a lot of ugali and green vegetables.
My point, is to destroy this myth about Kenyan kids running vast mileage which is simply not true. Most 'kids' interested in running will start to get serious around age 15 at the earliest, and then only for limited times, because school is a very serious business in Kenya, and drop outs are not allowed in the developed cities of Eldoret, Iten and Kapsabat, where most of the good runners come from.
The kids who drop out from school, like those from the vast Kibera slum (some 1.5 million people live there!) don't get involved with running....they are too busy trying to help their families, and/or many others are involved in crime. That is a dangerous place.
Ghost in Saudi,
, apply today.
Forgot to mention - The Kibera slum, is located on the outskirts of Nairobi. It is very different there, because there are so many different tribal groups there, and so, it is not 'safe' like Iten, for example, which feels like a small village, and where you see the same faces every day in the same places, including those two Kiwi kids who have elected domicile there as well as a handful of other permanent expat.
People ask me about Eldoret.....well, Iten is much better for training. Eldoret can be problematic, because of the traffic. Eldoret also has some crime stats, although nothing like Nairobi. It is relatively safe. If you stay in the downtown core of Eldoret.
In any case, there is basically nothing to do at night, so no reason to be out and about. In Eldoret, I recommend the 'White Castle Hotel' (around $20 u.s) including 'full English breakfast' There is also an excellent Chinese restaurant in town, near the Barclays bank. The restaurant was on the second floor, above the Internet cafe.
I was surprised to see the Kenyan love for 'British meals' like sausage, egg and chips' (French fries). Even the top runners occasionally succumbed to those basic foods.
Iten, because of the altitude and training routes, without cars, is much better training venue. Do not go there for the nightlife....there is one hotel in the city center....where there is a bit of 'life' at night, but not much else.
Go to the village green field at different times in the day, and you might see world class athletes resting and chatting there. It is near the St Patrick's school.
Every morning, early, Father Colm goes for his one hour walk, on the road that winds its way down on the other side from the road which leads to Eldoret.
If more information needed.
Ghost in Saudi. wwww.kfupm.edu.sa, apply today.
Really?? wrote:
Alright, I'll agree that there would probably be much more kid runners in Ethopia then Kenya. But even if Kipchoge was 21-22 when he was running in the Wc, do you really think he could start training at the age of 18 and just start running to get to the level he was and is at???
He was older than 21-22 when he won the world championships. I remember having tea with a friend and Kipchoge's wife (Kipchoge was in Nandi for the week) and she told me he was 28. This was in the summer of 2005.
I also never saw any Kenyan children training when I was there. They would play outside and randomly join a group of runners for a few minutes, then play some more. The kids who went to school about 5km away would walk. I didn't spend much time in the camps but I did see several Kenyan track meets with many legit 15-17 year old kids running very fast.
Wow you went to a one camp and met brother Colm.
Again you saw the "pretty" part of Kenyan running. I just got done having lunch with a former kenyan athlete and we both had a good laugh about your thoughts on Kenya and the camps.
In his words "I use to show up and train with a camp at 14. Then at 16 I was invited in. "
When it was decided he wasn't good enough to be a pro, he ended up over here.
No one would seriously follow the rules.
U americans are really funny when making excuses! Let's assume that these kids are much more older than they claim. So Lagat must be in his late 40's then! It means most americans can't keep up with a senile as he has 5ooom AR & 3000m AR! That guy Menjo, everybody is talking about claims to be 31years old so maybe he is 39 right? Guess what he ran 3:38(1500m), 3:53(mile), 12:55(5ooom),26:56(1oooom),27:04 (10k), 61'(half) only in 2010, and I am not seeing this guy slowing down! Or then how about grand pa Haile? Train hard if u wanna keep up, this sport isn't for lazy people!