I am not "extra", but golly gee willikers, you must feel pretty special using all those big words. I am not saying that you're (notice my spelling?) wrong, just laughing at your choice of words....myopic? Don't you feel special?
I am not "extra", but golly gee willikers, you must feel pretty special using all those big words. I am not saying that you're (notice my spelling?) wrong, just laughing at your choice of words....myopic? Don't you feel special?
You people do realize that, if someone were to have a problem with all this, you could be traced by your IP's and sued for libel and slander, right?
Since when is a 28:0x 10k equivalent to a 13:18 5k? That is news to me Take a peak at Renee's competition in that 3k. I would put her XC win this past weekend right on par with that. Vaughn has not done anything of note with Jay. You can say whatever you want about it. Vaughn's 5k race is by far the best race of his career. Vaughn is the most talented athlete jay has ever gotten his hands on and he is underperforming with him. I know that might be hard for you to take but at least you can play with your hard nipples. That should make you feel better.
My apologies about the 'Your' mistake. Had I realized this was a discussion about grammar I would have stepped up my game Mr. hard nipples.
I actually had several runners I coached who went on recruiting junkets to CU. One, Bradley Harkrader was recruited there. That occurred before Jay Johnson joined the staff. I did run see Jay at the two Rocky Mountain coaching clinics that Chris Lear and others put together which was after Jay had returned from coaching at a Junior College in Kansas. The first year Jay was at the conference, he covered the CU approach to training and did that well. The second year he went on-and-on about medicine ball tosses that his friend and fellow coach at Kansas State had Christian Smith doing. It was not as well done of a presentation as he had done the year before. He would ask the crowd,”do you think how far you can throw a medicine ball has a relationship to how fast you can run the 800?”. He would then say, “I don’t know. But maybe it does”. He still had enthusiasm which is what probably made him a good recruiter for CU.
However, the next year 2006, I was working with Anguel Tolev (2nd Colorado 5A cross country, 1600 and placed in the 3200 with a 9:25 here at altitude) a Footlocker finalist and Allison Gohl (4th cross country and 3rd 3200) and 13th at Footlocker Midwest. I had written to Johnson mid-season cross country to recommend both of these runners be given serious consideration. They had not hear from CU by the end of the cross country season. At the state meet, I spoke with Mark Wetmore. He apologized that no one from CU had gotten back to these two runners. He told me that the recruiting had been dropped by the staff member assigned to handle it. I knew he was talking about Johnson, and I was not surprised to hear that Jay was being let go. When recruiting is your responsibility and you ignore in state runners like those two, you are not doing your job. To me, Wetmore’s letter spelled out the reasons he let Johnson go. It was clear to me that Johnson left CU because he did not want to do the job he was hired to do. To his credit he has brought Sara Vaughn along nicely. But that does not reflect upon what value he gave to the CU program during his tenure as coach and recruiter. Jay’s comments in Scott Douglas’ article, to me, showed his bitterness at having left CU. But to my view of what happened, Mark Wetmore was justified in recommending Jay be relieved of his job at CU.
I consider most of this silly mudslinging. But the point about nepotism is well taken. Hiring a spouse, significant other or relative is always a bad idea which almost always generates hostility from other employees. This seems to be pretty darn universal. Jobs should be posted and people should apply, be interviewed, and hired if they are the best candidate for the position. Did Wetmore post the position, have a search committee review the applications, and decide who the best candidates were, and then interview them? This is how hiring is done on most public university campuses. The procedures are often detailed in state laws concerning hiring public employees. I have worked in academic units at a couple of large public universities and spousal hiring has come up a number of times and it always generates substantial conflict. It is difficult for two spouses to find a position if they are both academics, particularly if they are in the same field (like history or English) and I am somewhat sympathetic to this situation. But ultimately jobs should be posted and the best person should get it. Nepotism is an unfair and nasty business.
dr
I wouldn't get anything from comparing myself to someone like you. No offense.
abby willikers wrote:
I am not "extra", but golly gee willikers, you must feel pretty special using all those big words. I am not saying that you're (notice my spelling?) wrong, just laughing at your choice of words....myopic? Don't you feel special?
Learn to read, my illiterate friend. This is a discussion that requires intelligence, and your continuing idiocy (take a peak or a peek?) rules you out. Tell me, just how blissful is your ignorance?
extra wrote:
Since when is a 28:0x 10k equivalent to a 13:18 5k? That is news to me Take a peak at Renee's competition in that 3k. I would put her XC win this past weekend right on par with that. Vaughn has not done anything of note with Jay. You can say whatever you want about it. Vaughn's 5k race is by far the best race of his career. Vaughn is the most talented athlete jay has ever gotten his hands on and he is underperforming with him. I know that might be hard for you to take but at least you can play with your hard nipples. That should make you feel better.
My apologies about the 'Your' mistake. Had I realized this was a discussion about grammar I would have stepped up my game Mr. hard nipples.
ripping farts wrote:
You people do realize that, if someone were to have a problem with all this, you could be traced by your IP's and sued for libel and slander, right?
So you think the letsrun.com people are going to give you IP addresses? Or their host? Or do you think a court order is going to force them to?
Think of all the things that are written on the internet every day. Do you still think anything in this thread is going to end up in court? wtf.
blah blah blah blah...
everyone can blabber on and on about who did what, said what, etc. Having been in a non-coaching professional situation where the boss was sleeping with an employee (who worked for me)I can only say that it is the most disrupting dynamic imaginable. I don't know if the lady was working with/below this Johnson guy, but I can tell you what happens from there.
Suddenly the "lover's" ideas become the most important ones. Her opinions (despite anyones expertise/experience) become the most valid. Suddenly, she knows what the boss is thinking (no shit!!) and how to proceed in the 'best way" . The rest of the department/company/team become irrelevant. These people have to keep each other 'happy'.
Like I said, I don't know any details, but this dynamic hardly ever ends well. Unfortunately, in this case, we are talking about athletes and their short 4 years of college. A shame to waste that.
Exactly, there have been many instances of mud-slinging allowed right here on Letsrun (Salazar for example) and no lawsuits. It's an idle comment.
Surprise! wrote:
ripping farts wrote:You people do realize that, if someone were to have a problem with all this, you could be traced by your IP's and sued for libel and slander, right?
So you think the letsrun.com people are going to give you IP addresses? Or their host? Or do you think a court order is going to force them to?
Think of all the things that are written on the internet every day. Do you still think anything in this thread is going to end up in court? wtf.
How often does the vitriol actually even come close to affecting anyone in the real world. When it's the incestuous running community, however, what people say on here can very easily begin affecting people opinions, attitudes and rumors. The president of the IOC or the USA are not going to be affected by some trash spewed on here. Coaches at American colleges, however, are not beyond the sphere of influence here.
It is nice to see someone get on here with some facts and then post their real name and their email, such as Mr. McCarthy did. As for the OP and a couple of other people that have no intention of letting us know who you are (although it looks like the OP has been figured out), please stop posting your supposed facts until you let us know who you are. Opinions are fine, but to post things as factual when they aren't, is going too far.
With all of that said, I personally have lost some respect for both Johnson and Wetmore in regards to all of this, but at least Wetmore has been an extremely successful coach for many years. In reading the Running Times article about Jay Johnson I was not impressed.
Glenn McCarthy wrote:
I actually had several runners I coached who went on recruiting junkets to CU. One, Bradley Harkrader was recruited there. That occurred before Jay Johnson joined the staff.
Why was Harkrader's success under Wetmore stymied, punctuated with lengthy periods of injury, compared with how he ran in high school? He was breaking Goucher's course records as a high school senior and then ran nowhere close to how Goucher ran while at CU.
Astro wrote:
It is nice to see someone get on here with some facts and then post their real name and their email, such as Mr. McCarthy did.
Half agreed, half not. Having someone post their real name and give some first person perspective is really refreshing. But at the same time Mr. McCarthy is only passing along what was told to him by Wetmore. We really don't know if Jay dropped the ball, or another assistant, or maybe Jay *didn't* drop the ball but Wetmore is pushing the blame onto the guy on his way out the door.
I'm not saying any of these scenarios is more likely than any other, just explaining that hearsay is not "facts".
devils advocater wrote:
Astro wrote:It is nice to see someone get on here with some facts and then post their real name and their email, such as Mr. McCarthy did.
Half agreed, half not. Having someone post their real name and give some first person perspective is really refreshing. But at the same time Mr. McCarthy is only passing along what was told to him by Wetmore. We really don't know if Jay dropped the ball, or another assistant, or maybe Jay *didn't* drop the ball but Wetmore is pushing the blame onto the guy on his way out the door.
I'm not saying any of these scenarios is more likely than any other, just explaining that hearsay is not "facts".
Good points. I guess I was mostly just impressed with someone posting their name and giving detailed information. What the "facts" are, I guess we still don't know and to be honest, nobody will really know all the facts involved here. I just think both Johnson and Wetmore look bad here.
Well what may not be widely known is that McCarthy is a noted Lydiard guy and thus an obvious supporter of Wetmore, so no surprise that his commentary would run against any criticism of Wetmore. Using your own name doesn't remove your inherent bias. The question above about Harkrader is a good one and I'd like to hear exactly why Wetmore's runners not only get injured at such a high rate but that the rate seems fairly flat between incoming freshman and 5th year seniors.
Reliant Aries wrote:
Well what may not be widely known is that McCarthy is a noted Lydiard guy and thus an obvious supporter of Wetmore, so no surprise that his commentary would run against any criticism of Wetmore. Using your own name doesn't remove your inherent bias. The question above about Harkrader is a good one and I'd like to hear exactly why Wetmore's runners not only get injured at such a high rate but that the rate seems fairly flat between incoming freshman and 5th year seniors.
Can you provide the name of a few coaches that traditionally place better than CU at the NCAA CC Meet and never have issues with injuries and their runners always improve?
Reliant Aries wrote:
I'd like to hear exactly why Wetmore's runners not only get injured at such a high rate but that the rate seems fairly flat between incoming freshman and 5th year seniors.
Lots of people get injured in this sport. Here are few high profile runners who have had recent injuries, just off the top of my head: Webb, Ritz, Nick Willis, Chris Derrick, German Fernandez, Jim Rosa, Bekele.
The guys who never seem to be injured like Rupp, Solinsky, Lagat - aren't those guys more the exception than the rule?
Reliant Aries, first, though I am a devoted Lydiard follower, that would not stop me for giving specifics about this situation, if it had been Wetmore and not Johnson who failed to contact runners I was working with who deserved contact. Second, this is a thread about Mark Wetmore writing a letter to Running Times to refute incorrect comments made in an article that mentioned the CU cross country and track programs. There have been plenty of threads analyzing the CU program and its successes and failures. That is not relevant to the discussion in this thread however. Third, yes, Bradley Harkrader did not have the success at CU that he and I had hoped. Recurrent injuries did him in. In all liklihood, no matter who had coached Bradley, he would have had those same or similar injuries, just the luck of the draw on his genetic make-up.
I don't know anything about Jay Johnson's tenure at CU or have any connection to any current or former CU athletes. However, I am surprised, like many others, that Wetmore's significant other is able to work that closely with him. It seems like it'd be a very awkward situation at best and detrimental to the program at worst.
I don't think I'm the first to ask this, but does any knowledgeable party want to let us know if that's even allowed in a Colorado public institution?
That being said, I think Wetmore does a pretty good job given his resources, issues with personnel notwithstanding.