malmo wrote:
chet wrote:It's possible that we're actually in agreement and that this is a matter of semantics. For example, Kenenisa Bekele ran 26:25.97 in Eugene under the sun.
OK. Temp at 10am on June 8, 2008 was 52º, the dew point 45º. Incredible conditions. Any more questions?
Exactly...you've proven my point...incredible conditions, despite the sun.
chet wrote:
This only proves that it is a factor, and your question is not much different from mine when you replied that false dichotomies are not a good way to make a point.
Chet, you've lost. It is quite a bit different than your logical fallacy.
Running under the direct sun at a high altitude is quite a bit different than running in the same temperatures when the Sun is at a low altitude, and the difference is even greater when the Sun goes down. Furthermore, running on a 70º day with the Sun overhead is quite different than running on 70º day when it's cloudy. This is especially evident as the distance gets longer. Not so evident at 800/1500, since heat dissipation is not a major problem in those events, but as the distance gets longer 300/5000/10000 and finally marathon, the heat dissipation variable assets itself even more.
No, I haven't lost anything...
When you compare 2p.m. to 7p.m. on a sunny day, this is not much different from me comparing a 50 degree day and a 90 degree day. You are simply offering various points on a sun angle spectrum and I am doing so on a temperature spectrum. IF you cannot see this, well...
chet wrote:
No, I haven't lost anything...
When you compare 2p.m. to 7p.m. on a sunny day, this is not much different from me comparing a 50 degree day and a 90 degree day. You are simply offering various points on a sun angle spectrum and I am doing so on a temperature spectrum. IF you cannot see this, well...
Are you really that thick? Comparing 70º to 70º, or 90º to 90º at different times of day is comparing apples to apples. Comparing a 50º day to a 90º day is ridiculous.
Sure, the ad hominem attack when losing an argument. I knew it was only a matter of time. IF the sun angle is more important, then comparing extremes of it, which you did, is somehow perfectly acceptable. But when I compare some extremes of temperatures, which you state is LESS important, you find it ridiculous. Checkmate. This one is over...
You are absolutely ridiculous.
Tell me, do you think that they would have run 12:51 in Doha had the race been run at 2pm?
uhh..official temperature is air temp in the shade, not the temperature of some thing (or person) warmed by sunlight. sunlight matters b/c it affects surface body temp.
malmo wrote:
Lagat was hot 3 months ago. Since then, he has not been performing extremely well, just solid.
OK, now he's "solid." A few posts back, you said he was "cold, cold, cold."
Glad to see you revising your previous account, which was very wrong. We'll see who's right tomorrow.
Oh, and no, his second <12:56.00 was not exactly two months ago.
ventolin^3 wrote:
do some hard work :
best, invariable ( unlike iaaf tables which need updating instantaneously ) formula for distance conversions, is
speed Y = speed X * ( X / Y )^0.06917........
All your figures and calculations aside, I'd say my analysis was more correct this time around: Solinksky was not ready to go under 7:30, may never be able to go under 7:30, and certainly will never run 7:26.
Why? He is a 5k/10k guy. His strength carries him to a pretty decent 1500, and a very good 3k, but he does not have that pure anaerobic ability to really blast a fantastic 3k. Even Geb and Bekele were not able to approach Komen's time. I KNOW both of them were capable of faster than their pr's (so spare me that analysis), but their repeated attempts and failures at breaking 7:25 shows what that record is worth. Only 1500/3k/5k guys can really smoke a 3k. Thus El G's 2nd best ever time, and Morcelli's great time, and Komen the 3:46 miler (without ever really training for the mile) has the record. These are the types of guys that can run truly mind-blowing 3k times. Solinksy is not that kind of runner. His best event might be 10k, and while so might Geb and Bekele's best event also be 10k, they have MUCH more pure speed, and are simply MUCH better runners.
Lagat is another example. He is old, he is having an up and down season, yet as a 3:26 guy, he is the type of runner when even well off his prime can break 7:30. Solinksy in his prime? Maybe someday, but certainly not at the end of a long season, and certainly never sniffing 7:26, not even in his dreams.
The answer to the OP's question is "no."
Sir Lance-alot wrote:I'd say my analysis was more correct this time around: Solinksky was not ready to go under 7:30, may never be able to go under 7:30, and certainly will never run 7:26
eh ??
without anyone having seen the race or hearing sol's comments we don't know anything about his race went other than the time
the wabbit went thru in 2'27 which i hope sol didn't follow closely or he wouda been requiring paramedics by the end
Why? He is a 5k/10k guy. His strength carries him to a pretty decent 1500, and a very good 3k, but he does not have that pure anaerobic ability to really blast a fantastic 3k.
eh ?
fastest guy ever after the legends ( + saidi-thief who ran legendary on drugs ) is mourhit with 7'26 off 12'49, which was pretty much perfect race for him ( i saw it on tv ) whereas sol is running 12'55 off far from perfect races, with slack 4th kms - i'd say there's barely a coupla secs difference over 5k, which proportioned to 3k is virtually nothing
also mourhit ran 3'36pb in '00 - barely quicker than sol's pb
so very similar 1500s & 5ks ( if you saw the races ) - if mourhit runs 7'26, what the hell you expect sol to be capable off ?
Even Geb and Bekele were not able to approach Komen's time
learn to read
you can't run close to 7'20 if the best the wabbit ever offers you is 4'56 compared to komen's one of 4'53
I KNOW both of them were capable of faster than their pr's (so spare me that analysis), but their repeated attempts and failures at breaking 7:25 shows what that record is worth
read above
& what is geb's 7'26i worth outdoors ???
Only 1500/3k/5k guys can really smoke a 3k
nonsense
see mourhit's 7'26 off 3'36
Thus El G's 2nd best ever time, and Morcelli's great time, and Komen the 3:46 miler (without ever really training for the mile) has the record. These are the types of guys that can run truly mind-blowing 3k times
mourhit
Solinksy is not that kind of runner
he is in mourhit's mould though - but no drugs needed
Maybe someday, but certainly not at the end of a long season, and certainly never sniffing 7:26, not even in his dreams.
depends on whether he runs more than 1 quality one/year
he stays at this level & a "perfect" race, he will obliterate
btw SOI ran 7'29.7 off a known 3'44pb !!!