1'41.51 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imagine how fast Wheating will be when he gets to be Rudisha's age.

A few people have commented on Rudisha's stride length, and they are correct, this is the key to his amazing ability. For a couple of his races I counted his strides at 180 spm at 50.0 pace (during midpoint of race). Think about that, that is really incredible stride length. What is that, something like 2.7 meters per stride? Often you will see guys, when running that fast (someone shorter like Webb), pumping out 220 strides per minute or more.

On a related note, I believe I counted Komen doing right about 180 spm during his 7:20 race.

A lot of people try and improve their turnover, but stride length can be trained too (plyos, weights, drills, speed-work, bounding), and when running fast, is even more important than turnover (as speed increases, both turnover and stride length increase, but stride length increases more. )

True, and even the fast striders need to work on this. Coe was a fast strider.

Wow 1:41.51....basically matches a time that a guy ran 30 years ago. So really you're celebrating a complete lack of progress for three decades??? go home ventolin^3.....

You are just a good old fashioned bigot!

Czech guy wrote:

"What reasonable proof is there of Kipketer's drug use."

LOL Don't be naive, please. The years 1995-98 were the happy days of EPO. After whites (and Brazilians) left track in big numbers after 1985, Kenyans and other Africans (with the rare exception of Morcelli) showed nothing worth of note in the 800/1500 m. They always ran the same times like before, but they looked "superior", because their opponents disappeared almost overnight. But then, in 1995, a sudden explosion of genetic marvels from Kenya, Ethiopia and Morocco flooded all middle and long distances and started to break former world records like if they only jogged.

Kipketer was coached by a Polish guy, who had a very bad reputation because of arrogance and sexual harassment of his athletes. He certainly had no moral restraints to use the latest sport supplements (EPO).

ventolin^3 wrote:

the purpose of wabbit is to act as a "windbreaker"

Learn to talk.

It's rindbreaker!! not windbreaker.

Herdsman wrote:

You are just a good old fashioned bigot![quote]Czech guy wrote:

So because he provides quite persuasive statistical analysis on a large group of athletes from Africa (who lets face it produce the vast majority of middle & long distance athletes) he is therefore a bigot, or racist, which is what you're really getting at. Just like if someone points out that statistically more gun crimes in specific countries are carried out by blacks. This is a fact, not a bigotted point of view. Some people are too pc for their own good.

Czech guy is entitled to his point of view and unlike some on here, can back it up with evidence and doesn't resort to swearing and be-littling other posters.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

I believe I counted Komen doing right about 180 spm during his 7:20 race.

You're not sure?

Not sure that it was "about"... 180 spm?

About meaning....... 190? ... 195? ... 175?

Or did you imagine that you counted the number of strides.

confused counting person wrote:

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

I believe I counted Komen doing right about 180 spm during his 7:20 race.

You're not sure?

Not sure that it was "about"... 180 spm?

About meaning....... 190? ... 195? ... 175?

Or did you imagine that you counted the number of strides.

Is that an attempt at humor? At belittlement? Either way, not a good attempt.

It was awhile ago when I did the counting. From what I remember, I put the race in super-slow-mo, counted strides for 10 seconds at several points in the race, did the math, and arrived at, yes, I believe, as in I am not 100% sure that that I was absolutely accurate or that I remember correctly, a count of 180 spm. It might have been 177, it might have been 182, it might have been 183 at different points in the race. Yes, these #'s are all "about" 180, but unless I went back and double-checked, I will not swear by this.

I believe that should be clear enough for you.

Was it ever proven that Kipketer was being coached by an arrogant Pole, or is that just speculation?

UKFA Addidas wrote:So because he provides quite persuasive statistical analysis on a large group of athletes from Africa (who lets face it produce the vast majority of middle & long distance athletes) he is therefore a bigot, or racist, which is what you're really getting at. Just like if someone points out that statistically more gun crimes in specific countries are carried out by blacks. This is a fact, not a bigotted point of view. Some people are too pc for their own good

err...

no

moron

this imbecile posted "body-forms" ( ecto/meso/etc ) as a somewhat definer of 800 excellers

drivel

if you believe in this crap, you are are a dumber moron than that roadsweeper...

Czech guy is entitled to his point of view and unlike some on here, can back it up with evidence and doesn't resort to swearing and be-littling other posters.

it's drivel

not 1 higher order of analysis ever offered/suggested

Czech guy wrote:

"What reasonable proof is there of Kipketer's drug use."

LOL Don't be naive, please. The years 1995-98 were the happy days of EPO. After whites (and Brazilians) left track in big numbers after 1985, Kenyans and other Africans (with the rare exception of Morcelli) showed nothing worth of note in the 800/1500 m. They always ran the same times like before, but they looked "superior", because their opponents disappeared almost overnight. But then, in 1995, a sudden explosion of genetic marvels from Kenya, Ethiopia and Morocco flooded all middle and long distances and started to break former world records like if they only jogged.

Kenya had stayed out of a lot of international competition for various political reasons and Ethiopian had been involved in a big civil war (that eventually spawned Eritrea). That might have something to do with their lack of presence on the international stage.

However, I have a different point. The runners in the mid to late 90s were doping and that's why we haven't beaten their times? So why are the marathon times so good today? Did the (African) 800-1500 runners stop doping right when the (African) marathon runners started doping? And obviously there was a period of time in there when the 5000/10000 runners were doping, but they must have stopped now because the records have lasted a while.

Obviously the 800m runners are too stupid or too honest to beat the tests so they don't even try. Perhaps they should hang out with the marathon guys and see how it's done.

Does that make any sense at all?

"Kenya had stayed out of a lot of international competition for various political reasons and Ethiopian had been involved in a big civil war (that eventually spawned Eritrea). That might have something to do with their lack of presence on the international stage."

This is a notoriously known song that can't however hold water. Kenyans, Ethiopians, Somalis, Sudanese and North Africans have been internationally competing since 60's; look at historical lists and you will be surprised, how good they were. Africans boycotted Olympics during the 70's, but they didn't stay off international meetings. Or you have never heard about Henry Rono?! The popular rumour has that because of the boycott, the quality of Africans dropped and it was due to the big investments to athletics in Kenya that their runners again started to excell after the Olympics in Seoul 1988. But historical stats say something completely different: Kenyans started to excel, because their European, North American and Brazilian opponents disappeared virtually overnight around 1985. And as a result, they started to "dominate" with performances, with which they would barely make it to annual Top 10 in mid 80's. Do you want some example?

In the Olympic year 1992, David Kibet from Kenya was the 2nd fastest runner of the year with 3'32"13. But in 1985, Kibet would be only 8th in the annual stats. In other words: There was no "African rising", but "European downfall".

http://ospage2000.ic.cz/800m.htm

http://ospage2000.ic.cz/1500m.htm

Africans actually showed nothing specatacular in the 800/1500 m until 1995 (and when you include only East Africans and omit Morcelli's 3:28'82 from 1992, then the lack of quality is even more surprising), although they routinely occupied 4-6 places in annual Top 10. So why the hell did they explode so late, over a single winter 1995-96? Why did they hide all these genetic marvels in the mountains so long?

In the 3-10 km, the average performances started to rise only after 1990, but they didn't deviate from previous historical trends. Again, the real explosion of times came at the same time like in the 800/1500, in 1995. Why???

"However, I have a different point. The runners in the mid to late 90s were doping and that's why we haven't beaten their times? So why are the marathon times so good today?"

This is undoubtedly an interesting point. The times in the marathon have been rising, while in track distances they dropped dramatically. Frankly, I don't know a plausible answer to this question; there are several possibilities. For example, drug testing in the road marathon races may be more lax than in track. Or marathon runners may not be tested as frequently as guys in track. Or the benefits from EPO use in the marathon may be such that the runners only need very small doses.

In any case, the current prominent faces in the marathon (P.T., H.G.) are the same we saw in track during the happy EPO days. And the times in the marathon were stagnating for one decade, before they again started to rise - exactly in the same time like in track, e.g. in 1995.

"Obviously the 800m runners are too stupid or too honest to beat the tests so they don't even try. Perhaps they should hang out with the marathon guys and see how it's done."

I replied to this question in another thread. Why do you think that 400/800 m are the only athletic disciplines that have been stagnating for 2 decades, while in others we still routinely see "great performances"? Or alternatively: Do you know any doping stuff that could influence performance in the regime of anaerobic glycolysis?

Sounds like a load of nonsense:

Sammy Koskei 1:42.24 in 1984

Billy Konchellah 1:43.0 1987 and 1991 WC in the 800

Paul Ereng 1:43.1 Gold Medal 1988

Benson Koech 1:43.17 1994

William Tanui 1:43.30 Gold Medal 1992

Nixon Kiprotich 1:43.31 Silver Medal 1992

Mike Boit 1:43.57 in 1976!

Certainly these are spectacular results in the 800, which in fact was dominated more by Kenyan-borns from 1987-1999 then it is now.

Maybe if you were arguing about the 1500, your argument might hold a little bit of water. There were, however, Africans on the scene: Peter Rono, Bile, Chesire, Kirochi. Some of their Pr's are a bit misleading( Bile's 15 win was one of the most impressive races in history, and look at the guys Rono beat).

Poker wrote:

Sounds like a load of nonsense:

Sammy Koskei 1:42.24 in 1984

Billy Konchellah 1:43.0 1987 and 1991 WC in the 800

Paul Ereng 1:43.1 Gold Medal 1988

Benson Koech 1:43.17 1994

William Tanui 1:43.30 Gold Medal 1992

Nixon Kiprotich 1:43.31 Silver Medal 1992

Mike Boit 1:43.57 in 1976!

Certainly these are spectacular results in the 800, which in fact was dominated more by Kenyan-borns from 1987-1999 then it is now.

Maybe if you were arguing about the 1500, your argument might hold a little bit of water. There were, however, Africans on the scene: Peter Rono, Bile, Chesire, Kirochi. Some of their Pr's are a bit misleading( Bile's 15 win was one of the most impressive races in history, and look at the guys Rono beat).

Thank you. An impressive list of medals from the time, when the 800 m was in agony. And your point?

I don't get your point. 1996 becomes special year of drugs because 1 guy (Kipketer) who's Kenyan starts running fast?

Not to mention that these Kenyans from 1987-1996 were running their PBs in Championship races not TT's. Ever think there was something left in the tank had they had the WR attempts like Kipketer or Rudisha?

agree :

coe when he saw billy's rome win believed he was the guy to get under 1'42 & threaten his wr, but illness/injury ruined his chances albeit he won another gold

anyone who saw that race knew he was a level above elliot who within a coupla years had gone 1'42.9 - i'd rate billy in his rome form to have been in close to 1'42-flat shape & who knows what rested ( remember, it looked an impressive a win & just fractionally slower than cruz's 1'43.00 & he went 1'41.77 that year ! )

ereng looked a supertalent in winning gold - anyone who saw him shouda reckoned that was at least a mid-1'42 talent on the circuit & similarly tanui looked capable of high-1'42

these guys basically ran at/near their best in majors & weren't great time chasers on the circuit - the rewards for setting wrs didn't come with $50k or $100k bonuses at the time, so probably not worth killing yourself to attempt them seriously

certainly, 1 wouda expected 3 even 4 more kenyans in the < 1'43 category between '87 - '95 if they had pushed themselves to the limit on the circuit ( i look at yego who's nowhere as talented as those guys & he's gone 1'42.67 ! )