Is the Oregon dynasty done already?

If we're not supposed to count Osoro as a Kenyan, than why does UP list him from Kenya on their own website?

Also, just because you have foreigners that don't make their top seven, doesn't mean they are not on the team and are on scholarships.

BSS wrote:

If we're not supposed to count Osoro as a Kenyan, than why does UP list him from Kenya on their own website?

Also, just because you have foreigners that don't make their top seven, doesn't mean they are not on the team and are on scholarships.

I have no idea why UP lists things the way they do. But rest assured, Osoro went through the AMERICAN highschool system.

And I think they only have two other "foreigners" that I didn't mention in my original post on this subject. Bozzone is from NZ, I think...and Tarus is from Kenya. But they didn't figure into the mix, so I didn't include them. Why would I?

UP has relatively little dependence on foreign athletes, unlike schools such as Ok State, Iona, or Alabama. A single foreign athlete in their top 7 is NOT the end of the world.

Bloop Bloop! wrote:

Well, considering there were only TWO in the race, and one of which being from North Dakota, still alright. And seriously, why would it matter?

But would they have beaten Oregon and the FULL backing of Nike without their Kenyans?

Bloop Bloop! wrote:

Well, considering there were only TWO in the race, and one of which being from North Dakota, still alright. And seriously, why would it matter?

Why does it matter? It matters because I'm trying to make sense of the argument that Oregon has alter-g threadmills, foreign athletes, Nike's support and Portland still beats them. It seems that Portland also has an alter-g threadmill and foreign athletes. So why is it a big deal that Oregon has these things when Portland has them too?

The only difference I can see is the full support of Nike, which no one seems to be able to explain exactly what that is.

Oregon doesn't recruit foreigners

Great points. Oh, and for all those gloating anti-Oregon children, the Ducks are in the process of re-loading as we speak. Already, they have 2010 verbal commitments from some of the top High School distance runners in the country. For starters, verbals have come in from Cole Watson (Oregon), Brian Shrader (Texas), Parker Stinson (Arizona). Another Dynasty in the making? Perhaps, how can in not be with the "full support of Nike"...whatever the hell that means. LOL EOT

The Betrayed wrote:

Bloop Bloop! wrote:

Well, considering there were only TWO in the race, and one of which being from North Dakota, still alright. And seriously, why would it matter?

Why does it matter? It matters because I'm trying to make sense of the argument that Oregon has alter-g threadmills, foreign athletes, Nike's support and Portland still beats them. It seems that Portland also has an alter-g threadmill and foreign athletes. So why is it a big deal that Oregon has these things when Portland has them too?

The only difference I can see is the full support of Nike, which no one seems to be able to explain exactly what that is.

Portland does not have anything close to an alter-G treadmill.... and nike's support probably mean's a huge amount of gear, the latest technology not available to other schools and $$$ for maintaining their world class athletic facilities. UP gets free shoes, one pair of shorts, a few t-shirts, a sweatshirt and a uniform and that is about it. Every UP runner ran west regionals in last years model of nike spikes. PLUSSSS!!!!! even without UP's LONE kenyan alfred kipchumba, they still would have beaten the Ducks by 5 points so suck it, that argument is now void! (Joash Osoro is American and more American than Shadrack Kiptoo was so deal with it)

The Betrayed wrote:

It seems that Portland also has an alter-g threadmill and foreign athletes. So why is it a big deal that Oregon has these things when Portland has them too?

The last I saw UP's athletic training room (last spring) it consisted of a lone 10+ year old treadmill, a pair of equally shitty ellipticals, two ice baths that can fit no more than 10 well-acquainted people combined between the two, 3-4 massage tables with the standard ice/stim and ultrasound machines, an ancient spin bike (the kind with the big fan for the front wheel that my grandmother had rotting in her basement), an ice machine, and one of those arm-spinning devices that's basically bike pedals for your arms. Oh yeah, and that last thing had been broken for several years. At best there'll be 3 trainers and a pair of student assistants working. And that's for all the athletic teams to share.

All the shit in there combined is probably worth about half of an alter-g treadmill.

U of Over wrote:

Portland does not have anything close to an alter-G treadmill.... and nike's support probably mean's a huge amount of gear, the latest technology not available to other schools and $$$ for maintaining their world class athletic facilities.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the facilities used for cross country simply roads, dirt trails and an all weather track? I'm pretty sure Portland has access to roads, dirt trails and an all weather track. Am I wrong in saying this? Also, races are usually held on golf courses. I'm pretty sure Portland has access to golf courses as well. Is this what you mean by world class facilities? So you mean Nike pays for the maintanance of the roads, golf couses and dirt that oregon uses? There's also ice baths and jacuzzi's, free access to a doctor, but I'm pretty sure Portland has those too.

As far as Nike gear, are you saying that Portland's runners do not have access to some of the running shoes that Oregon has? Like some of the models are available to Oregon's athletes but not to anyone else? I'm pretty sure Nike does not make top secret shoes for Oregon's runners only. The shoe models Oregon's runners were wearing on Saturday were available to Portland's runners, I would assume.

So to summerize what you stated, the big difference between Oregon (with full Nike support) and Portland is that Oregon has more than one choice of jersey and shorts to run in and shoe models not available to Portland (I question this claim). Am I missing anything? Man, back when I ran in college this would have hardly meant anything to anybody.

quit talking out your ass wrote:

All the shit in there combined is probably worth about half of an alter-g treadmill.

Well, I never knew the possesion of an Alter-g threadmill was so pivotal to the success of a college cross country program. But that being the case, wouldn't it make sense for Portland to sell all the shit you described and get an alter g threadmill? Or is this something Nike only makes available to Oregon? I know that Washington has an alter-g threadmill and I have never heard of them having the full support of Nike, so surely it is possible.

You're missing the point. Oregon's power to recruit top talent/athletes far outweighs Portland's power to do so (evidenced by the plethora of Footlocker finalists/champions on Oregon's team, and the lack thereof on Portland's team). Forget the advantages in facilities, Oregon has a gigantic advantage over a team like Portland when it comes to depth and talent. Yet Portland still was able to beat them, and that makes you a little salty. Even in your delusional world where Portland is a team made up of world class Kenyan athletes and foreigners, the fact remains that your ducks failed to prevail against inferior talent. Boohoo, you'll get another shot at them in a week or so, good luck.

I think we can all assume that it will NOT be the "Same Result" at the NC's. Vin will expect more from his runners at a meet that means something in terms of trophies, etc. The Portland Pilots make me puke with their Kenyan and other foreign athletes...their six rides for Cross Country runners also probably exceeds what Oregon expends on Cross Country runners when one recognizes that most Oregon kids get very little financial help (ask the Mercados or Kenny Klotz for starters). Oregon uses most of its 12 schollies for accross the board athletes like Ashton Eaton

(Decathlon), Andy Wheating (800 meters), Hostetler (Javelin)

and so on. So, why doesn't Portland regularly beat Oregon in XC, as it would seem they should based on the emphasis they place on XC (how many points did UP score at Outdoor NCAA track and field championships?)? The answer has to do with the aura of Eugene and Hayward Field, and the pride that these kids have to run for the University of Oregon, a school with tradition that bursts from the seams. And Portland? Well, they can gloat, like a school that doesn't know how to be there.

Same Result wrote:

You're missing the point. Oregon's power to recruit top talent/athletes far outweighs Portland's power to do so (evidenced by the plethora of Footlocker finalists/champions on Oregon's team, and the lack thereof on Portland's team). Forget the advantages in facilities, Oregon has a gigantic advantage over a team like Portland when it comes to depth and talent. Yet Portland still was able to beat them, and that makes you a little salty. Even in your delusional world where Portland is a team made up of world class Kenyan athletes and foreigners, the fact remains that your ducks failed to prevail against inferior talent. Boohoo, you'll get another shot at them in a week or so, good luck.

Sorry,but you must have misunderstood me. I am quite sure I never mentioned that Portland was a team made up of world class Kenyan athletes. I was, however, under the impression that they had foreign runners on there team. Am I mistaken about this?

I really have nothing at stake in whether Oregon wins or loses. I couldn't care less, to be perfectly honest. I simply wanted a better understanding of the often talked about advantages Oregon cross country has, such as facilites, technology, Nike support. Sadly, I am no where nearer to solving this riddle.

Wow Teddy, I'm sensing a little bitterness. However I would agree with you that Eugene does have a certain aura with Hayward Field, Pre's trail, awesome facilities, and all that good stuff. That's exactly my point! It doesn't matter how much money a school like Portland throws at a kid who is mesmorized my the glamour of the "school where Pre ran!" Oregon can get all that incredible talent without dropping a dime! That is why Portland does not regularly beat Oregon in XC; because Oregon is steeped in distance running tradition, and they get all the best talent. Thankfully it didn't blind a kid like Trevor Dunbar, who will reep the benifits of Conner's system over the rest of his college career.

We will see what happens in a week. I certainly hope that Portland has their sights set on higher goals than just beating the Ducks again.

Oh yes, and correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Portland typically run well at Regionals? And don't they typically crash and burn at Nationals? Could this have something to do with the fact that they don't race in the presigious Pac 10 championships, where schools like Oregon lay it all on the line. And isn't it true that the Regionals is where Portland traditionally HAS to run well to make it on to Nationals? Whereas, Oregon is usually a lock to move on to nationals, so typically uses Regionals as a "mandatory" step to get to nationals. Enthusiasm for Regionals is a big difference between the two programs (Oregon would prefer to not have to run it), UP uses it to "prove themselves worthy" of moving on. This is why UP may be setting their sights higher, but they will find themselves running behind the Green and Gold at Terra Haute. Just the facts. Mark my words. You can count on it.

I'm pretty sure the guys at Oregon didn't step on the line saying, "I'm not gonna run 100% today because I don't have to and I'll just do it at the NCAA Championships."

Because, if they did .............

Pride comes before the fall.

Wow, heated rivalry. One one side we have David with no alterG threadmill and only one jersey from Nike. On the the other we have Goliath with an Alter g threadmill and more than one jersey to wear from Nike. Will Portland overcome the insurmountable odds? Will Oregon wear both jerseys from Nike at the same time and will this spell the end for Portland? Epic.

This whole claim is ridiculous; I highly doubt that any Portland runners are coming onto LetsRun to gloat about their race at regionals. We can be sure, based on the academic merit of the universities (UP > UO), that they wholly understand that Nats is what counts and we can count on them to be gunning for the ducks. Btw the ducks didn’t go out run easy and tempo, they went to the lead, probably with the dream of capitalizing on their deep talent and beating Stanford, instead they led through 5k and then died miserably. You want to talk about running smart at 2009 regionals, the pilots went out easy and picked ducks off as they blew up. You can’t blame them for having a superior race plan. In summary, don’t act like UP is a bunch of cocky foreigners simply because some XC fans were impressed with the way they ran.