Oregon Dodges Adams State by Refusing the team entry to the 2009 Dellinger Meet

Your argument regarding a National Championship team possessing fear is weak. Are the runners afraid? Of course not. They are the ones who can not possess fear. Do you think Vin and the management called them all in and asked them whether or not they should let Adams run??

Oregon is scared of getting beat. The coaches are scared of Adams, not the runners. It is not so much afraid of them as it is afraid of losing to them. They know it is a strong possibility and that it would make them look pretty bad. This isn't the first time a DI team has shown this attitude towards Adams State.

Could they meet at another Cross Venue such as Roy Griak or something like that?

intelligent wrote:

People should stop bringing up completely irrelevant DII wins over DI from the 90s because they do not make your arguments any more compelling.

Especially if they didn't happen...

Griak Last year

1. 75 Adams State ( 24:38 2:03:08)

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1 5 Reuben Chebon-Mwei JR 24:16

2 9 Aaron Braun JR 24:21 5 27 Ryan McNiff SO 25:05

3 11 Brain Medigovich JR 24:27 6 ( 28) Babey Wagnew SR 25:06

4 23 Florian Theophile JR 24:59

2. 89 Iowa State ( 24:40 2:03:20)

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1 8 Hillary Bor SO 24:19 5 40 Yonas Mebrahtu FR 25:16

2 10 Kiel Uhl SR 24:22 6 ( 41) Clayton Carper SO 25:16

3 12 Guor Majak JR 24:30 7 ( 46) Jory Zunich JR 25:18

4 19 Rico Loy FR 24:53

3. 91 Brigham Young ( 24:44 2:03:40)

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1 4 Stephan Shay SR 24:13 5 33 Thomas Gruenewald FR 25:11

2 6 Kyle Perry SR 24:17 6 ( 44) Brandon Hebbert SO 25:17

3 16 Jacob Gustafsson SR 24:48 7 ( 57) Jason Witt FR 25:28

4 32 Nate Ogden SO 25:11

4. 107 Minnesota ( 24:49 2:04:05)

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1 2 Hassan Mead SO 24:08 5 36 Mike McFarland SO 25:14

2 13 Chris Rombough SR 24:35 6( 62) Ben Blankenship SO 25:32

3 21 Mike Torchia SO 24:55 7 ( 66) Ben Kampf JR 25:35

4 35 Matt Barrett JR 25:13

sorry it's messy just didn't feel like spending lots of time cleaning it up

sorry it's messy just didn't feel like spending lots of time cleaning it up[/quote]

0/10

Not sure why this is such a big deal. I don't think it is a big secret that Adams St. (and usually the D2 champ) would finish in the top-10 at D1 championships. Just not that much of a difference in scholarship funding between an Adams St-type place and places like Iona, Providence, or Butler. D2 has some different rules as to who is eligible and D2 tends to be in far flung places but in the grand scheme of things top-level D2 cross is highly competitive with top-level D1 cross.

Oregon probably just wants a DI only meet, not a very big deal as far as I'm concerned. Adams probably couldn't beat U of O but could probably finish second or third. The other teams in the meet are probably aware of this and some of them might care but must of them probably do not.

Average DII distance Guy wrote:

Griak Last year

1. 75 Adams State ( 24:38 2:03:08)

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2. 89 Iowa State ( 24:40 2:03:20)

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oregon's avg time was 67 sec faster than iowa's at ncaas, and they beat them by 342 points

1. 93 Oregon ( 29:50 2:29:09)

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1 1 467 Galen Rupp SR 8:29 14:29 23:17 29:04

2 4 466 Luke Puskedra FR 8:41 14:46 23:37 29:28

3 8 461 Shadrac Kiptoo-Biwott SR 8:40 14:46 23:40 29:44

4 36 459 Matthew Centrowitz SO 8:48 15:00 24:16 30:22

5 44 465 Diego Mercado SO 8:48 15:00 24:24 30:31

9. 310 BYU ( 30:39 2:33:11)

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1 9 102 Kyle Perry SR 8:41 14:46 23:47 29:47

2 50 103 Stephan Shay SR 8:46 15:00 24:23 30:34

3 65 95 Jacob Gustafsson SR 9:02 15:19 24:40 30:46

4 84 97 Dan Hinckley SR 8:54 15:15 24:44 30:58

5 102 99 Ryan Merriman JR 8:59 15:22 24:49 31:06

6 (120) 100 Rich Nelson JR 8:58 15:22 25:00 31:17

7 (165) 101 Nate Ogden JR 8:59 15:24 25:14 31:50

15. 385 Minnesota ( 30:46 2:33:49)

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1 15 340 Chris Rombough SR 8:49 14:57 24:00 29:55

2 25 337 Hassan Mead SO 8:56 15:07 24:07 30:07

3 80 331 Ben Blankenship SO 9:04 24:37 30:56

4 128 330 Matt Barrett JR 9:08 15:34 25:04 31:24

5 137 336 Mike McFarland JR 9:09 15:34 25:08 31:27

6 (177) 339 Ben Puhl SR 9:10 15:43 25:25 32:01

7 (193) 341 Mike Torchia SO 9:10 15:36 25:40 32:25

17. 435 Iowa State ( 30:57 2:34:44)

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1 31 258 Guor Marial JR 8:51 14:58 24:04 30:13

2 41 264 Kiel Uhl SR 8:55 15:08 24:22 30:28

3 46 253 Hillary Bor SO 8:58 15:11 24:21 30:32

4 138 254 Kevin Born SR 9:11 15:30 25:08 31:28

5 179 255 Clayton Carper SO 9:04 15:35 25:27 32:03

Going off of average times, ASC beat ISU, MN, and BYU by 2, 6, and 11 seconds over 8k. Oregon beat then over 10k by 67, 56, and 49 seconds.

Yep, ASC would kick some duck ass.

Yeah Adams State beat Arkansas about 15-20 years ago. So what? If I were Oregon, I wouldn't schedule a D-2 school to the Dellinger unless Adams State were willing to pay all their expenses and unless they could prove that they would add something to the event. Dellinger attracts top teams and allows them to set the "pecking order" for NCAA D-1 championships. Adams State needs to either step it up to D-1 or schedule worthy D-2 opponents and run their own meet.

Wheatings Wheat Flakes wrote:

Yeah Adams State beat Arkansas about 15-20 years ago. So what? If I were Oregon, I wouldn't schedule a D-2 school to the Dellinger unless Adams State were willing to pay all their expenses and unless they could prove that they would add something to the event. Dellinger attracts top teams and allows them to set the "pecking order" for NCAA D-1 championships. Adams State needs to either step it up to D-1 or schedule worthy D-2 opponents and run their own meet.

Exactly.

And I agree with "Perspective."

The Dellinger meet is meant to be an early season, get in the swing of things XC meet, as a build up to the title meets to come.

Adams State, Smadams State, it doesn't matter.

The intention of the meet is the priority. If it evolves into something more later, say as other D1 teams get better, so be it.

Oregon isn't even thinking of Adams State, they are not a D1 School / team.

Oregon could stack the meet with teams they are sure to shut out if they want.

The last time I checked no Oregon athlete was going "Remember how we kicked ass at the 2007 Dellinger?!?"

No, they are going "Wasn't it great to win the NCAA XC title in 2007!!!?"

Anyway, I think about 80% of the Adams State hates Oregon posts here are by the same person, or some copy cats.

The Dellinger is not that important of a meet. The Pac Ten actually means more than Regionals on a certain level, because of its' longer history.

The NCAA's, now that counts.

While it would mean the world to ASC to defeat Oregon that early in the season, it would mean little to Oregon to lose to Adams State that early in the season.

But, the real goal of the meet is to start tuning up for the bigger meets to come.

Heck, even high school teams schedule this way; everyone schedules this way. From less pressure to more pressure as the season grows...to Nationals.

Basic season building.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I find the idea that Oregon would dodge Adams State, or would have any reason to, not very credible. Actually, the notion is laughable.

I believe the discussion was if Oregon was ducking Adams State THIS year. Its ok I know its confusing for ya.

coloradostuddmuffin wrote:

I believe the discussion was if Oregon was ducking Adams State THIS year. Its ok I know its confusing for ya.

Then why are all these D2 kids talking about races in 1992 and Griak last year? I thought D2 was supposed to be the ATHLETICALLY inferior division, but if your logic holds then all the discussion in this thread shows they're dumber too, not just slower. Oh wait, this year hasn't started yet, so we have to look at last year. I know that's confusing for ya.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this; in fact I'd probably fall asleep trying to keep up. From an outsider's perspective, this is only a real dilemma to those who love dilemmas...it is merely entertainment for the less fortunate, the "battle cry" of JV armies everywhere. It's the same people who knew McCain would be slaughtered but built legitimate "scenarios" that Obama would lose (note that I voted for McCain but my preference didn't deter my vision), the same people who, year after year, tell you all the reasons that Under Armor is eventually going to be bigger than Nike and how Nike is trembling at the reality, and fits the mold of the Taliban leaders who excite their fighters with thoughts that they are pound for pound better than the coalition forces in Afghanistan and speculate that these same forces are afraid to face them inside of their tiny caves that no one is even cognizant of.

To the Duck runner who foolishly decided to involve himself and respond to the peanut gallery, I suggest you don't waste your time. The opposition will always have more reasons, justifications and theories that outnumber what you can counter with...all of them are speculation, none of them are fact. You can't fight wild speculation with logic--when the realm of debate is open to interpretation vice fact, it's a road you can't win. It's best to just say, "You’re right, OU is scared, Adams St presents a legitimate foe" and let the little men hop of their computers and return home with stories to their girlfriends about how they showed this D-1 guy up on the computer today. It’s a combination of a self-fulfilling prophesy in conjunction with little man syndrome.

Adams St is not in the league of Oregon. Their followers throw this pitch year after year to those who will listen. At the Rocky Mountain shootout they claim CU doesn't race all out because they're "scared" to see the results of how close (if not superior) ASU is. The one year they competed on par with CU, and CU went on to win the national championship, no one thought "wow, ASU would've won D-1 nationals!!!"...no one outside of a small town in Colorado that is. Now they will turn to you and anyone else who will listen and say the reason you AREN'T racing them in an insignificant, early season meet is because you're "scared"...those with the ability to discern don't even think twice about that argument, you don't need to justify yourself. Just sit back, relax, maybe throw a bag of popcorn in the microwave and enjoy the show!

Rob Gary wrote:

sorry it's messy just didn't feel like spending lots of time cleaning it up

0/10[/quote]

here's the link

And me posting my previous thread was showing that Adams did race at Griak last year and they wanted a different competitive DI meet to go to. In no way was I going to say they could beat Oregon. It might be close, but you have to give the nod to the DI defending champs.

--Thanks for the nod, but there is nothing "foolish" about responding. It's all entertainment.

I don't take ASC that seriously, and neither do the Ducks.

Their fans, or students, post stuff like this for entertainment, I respond for entertainment.

They make me laugh. But it is all a part of the American parade.

I can't get official word from either school yet...http://d2cross.blogspot.com

Wheatings Wheat Flakes wrote:

Yeah Adams State beat Arkansas about 15-20 years ago.

Would someone please tell us where this happened? Someone give Vigil a call and ask him? Any old Adams State guys lurking? Was it at the Chile Pepper? Was it at the Cowboy Jamboree? Was it at some other meet? Is it a made up story from the year that Adams scored 15 points at Nationals and has been repeated enough that people think it's fact? 15-20 years ago Arkansas was at the zenith of it's success. It would have been very hard to beat that distance crew at full strength.

a duck hit it right on the head. basic season building is exactly what the coaches are doing. its not that they are scared of adams state; they simply want to build a certain comfort before facing stiff competition, which they will get plenty of in pac-10s, regionals, nats. feel free to disagree, but i am pretty sure oregon would beat adams state, even early in the year, but even so, why put pressure on yourself to do so that early in the season? the meet simply isnt high on oregons priority list. if by no other reason, id trust a coach with as strong a resume as vin to know whats best for his athletes, and if that means not facing adams state, so be it, the guy clearly knows what hes doing over there.