2nd in 3:59.98 1500 in ROME!!!

Richard simmons wrote:

So if 1lb = 1sec in the 1500, what would Erin Donohue run if she lost the weight? She weighs 143!

as pointed out, that's where the genetics comes in

she is of stocky build anyway & her zero-fat body weight may actually be not far of 143

the only way of knowing her actual zero-fat bodyweight is to do formal hydrostatic weighing down at the physiologist's pad

ventolin wrote:

4'04 prior with 5 lb blubber loss :

140 -> 135 = ~ 3'59.61

135 -> 130 = ~ 3'59.44

130 -> 125 = ~ 3'59.27

125 -> 120 = ~ 3'59.08

120 -> 115 = ~ 3'58.87

115 -> 110 = ~ 3'58.64

pretty obvious over 1500 it's

1 lb blubber = ~ 1s...

And where are all these data points coming from?

I think everyone is missing the original "Troll's" point. He is not saying he thinks WT is doping - I don't either for that matter. He is saying her progression for an athlete at that age is seen in this country as something natural and awesome, while if she were a European who had the same progression the LetsRun community would jump all over her.

interested hmm wrote:

does anyone have this list annotated for people who were either convicted of doping, had a coach who was convicted of doping, etc.?

This is pretty good:

23 3:56.18 Maryam Yusuf Jamal BRN 16.09.84 1 Rieti 27.08.2006

46 3:57.12 Mary Slaney USA 04.08.58 1 Stockholm 26.07.1983

52 3:57.40 Suzy Favor Hamilton USA 08.08.68 1 Oslo 28.07.2000

61 3:57.71 Carla Sacramento POR 10.12.71 4 Monaco 08.08.1998

73 3:57.90 Kelly Holmes GBR 19.04.70 1 Athínai 28.08.2004

79 3:58.12 Naomi Mugo KEN 02.01.77 5 Monaco 08.08.1998

83 3:58.20 Anita Weyermann SUI 08.12.77 6 Monaco 08.08.1998

88 3:58.28 Elvan Abeylegesse TUR 11.09.82 1 Moskva 30.05.2004

107 3:58.65 Gabriella Dorio ITA 26.06.57 2 Tirrenia 25.08.1982

119 3:58.79 Gelete Burka ETH 15.02.86 1 Hengelo 01.06.2009

124 3:58.85 Sonia O'Sullivan IRL 28.11.69 1 Monaco 25.07.1995

150 3:59.22 Lidia Chojecka POL 25.01.77 1 Oslo 28.07.2000

181 3:59.51 Natalia Rodríguez ESP 02.06.79 4 Rieti 28.08.2005

186 3:59.60 Sonia O'Sullivan IRL 28.11.69 2 Monaco 07.08.1993

186 3:59.60 Gelete Burka ETH 15.02.86 5 Rieti 28.08.2005

215 3:59.90 Cornelia Bürki SUI 03.10.53 4 Roma 05.09.1987

215 3:59.90 Jenny Barringer USA 23.08.86 2 Eugene 07.06.2009

224 3:59.95 Hayley Tullett GBR 17.02.73 3 Saint-Denis 31.08.2003

226 3:59.96 Zola Pieterse GBR 26.05.66 3 Bruxelles 30.08.1985

228 3:59.98 Christin Wurth-Thomas USA 11.07.80 2 Roma 10.07.2009

230 4:00.00 Hassiba Boulmerka ALG 10.07.68 2 Zürich 07.08.1991

246 4:00.18 Ruth Wysocki USA 08.03.57 1 Los Angeles 24.06.1984

252 4:00.23 Nancy Lagat Chebet KEN 22.08.81 1 Beijing 23.08.2008

258 4:00.27 Lynn Williams CAN 11.07.60 4 Bruxelles 30.08.1985

268 4:00.33 Shannon Rowbury USA 19.09.84 2 Saint-Denis 18.07.2008

291 4:00.50 Latifa Essarokh FRA 11.12.73 2 Lausanne 11.07.2006

299 4:00.55 Grete Waitz NOR 01.10.53 5 Praha 03.09.1978

302 4:00.57 Christina Cahill GBR 25.03.57 1 Gateshead 06.07.1984

307 4:00.59 Mayte Zúñiga ESP 28.12.64 6 Barcelona 08.08.1992

307 4:00.59 Anna Jakubczak POL 02.02.73 8 Rieti 28.08.2005

310 4:00.60 Zahra Ouaziz MAR 20.12.69 1 Stuttgart 19.07.1998

326 4:00.66 Jackline Maranga KEN 16.12.77 5 Roma 14.07.1998

328 4:00.67 Latifa Essarokh FRA 11.12.73 3 Saint-Denis 08.07.2006

339 4:00.73 Kirsty Wade GBR 06.08.62 1 Gateshead 26.07.1987

397 4:01.10 Sandra Gasser SUI 27.07.62 1 Oslo 04.07.1987

397 4:01.10 Helen Clitheroe GBR 02.01.74 3 Monaco 19.07.2002

416 4:01.20 Yvonne Murray GBR 04.10.64 2 Oslo 04.07.1987

426 4:01.23 Nouria Mérah-Benida ALG 19.10.70 3 Bruxelles 25.08.2000

434 4:01.26 Judit Varga HUN 16.04.76 6 Zürich 16.08.2002

437 4:01.28 Bouchra Ghézielle FRA 19.05.79 4 Monaco 09.09.2005

448 4:01.34 Margaret Crowley AUS 25.05.67 3 Oslo 05.07.1996

450 4:01.36 Lidia Chojecka POL 25.01.77 3 Zürich 11.08.1999

453 4:01.38 Elizabeth McColgan GBR 24.05.64 3 Oslo 04.07.1987

464 4:01.41 Kirsty Wade GBR 06.08.62 6 Roma 05.09.1987

470 4:01.43 Anna Jakubczak POL 02.02.73 4 Zürich 11.08.1999

474 4:01.44 Anna Willard USA 31.03.84 4 Eugene 07.06.2009

486 4:01.47 Getenesh Wami ETH 11.12.74 2 Stuttgart 19.07.1998

495 4:01.50 Maria Mutola MOZ 27.10.72 1 Roma 12.07.2002

500 4:01.53 Christine Benning GBR 30.03.55 3 Zürich 15.08.1979

501 4:01.54 Brigitte Kraus FRG 12.08.56 1 Dortmund 01.07.1978

519 4:01.61 Angela Chalmers CAN 06.09.63 1 Paris 03.09.1994

565 4:01.79 Diana Richburg USA 02.07.63 7 Roma 05.09.1987

565 4:01.79 Joanne Pavey GBR 20.09.73 4 Monaco 13.09.2003

580 4:01.83 Christine Benning GBR 30.03.55 2 Gateshead 06.07.1984

583 4:01.84 Yvonne Graham JAM 22.08.65 2 Monaco 25.07.1995

615 4:01.99 Courtney Babcock CAN 30.06.72 7 Bruxelles 05.09.2003

631 4:02.08 Geraldine Hendricken IRL 19.04.70 3 Paris 14.09.2002

635 4:02.10 Viola Kibiwott KEN 22.12.83 5 Osaka 02.09.2007

635 4:02.10 Lisa Dobriskey GBR 23.12.83 4 Beijing 23.08.2008

648 4:02.13 Sonja Roman SLO 11.03.79 4 Roma 10.07.2009

653 4:02.15 Elana Meyer RSA 10.10.66 1 Cape Town 21.03.1992

683 4:02.26 Patricia Djaté FRA 03.01.71 2 Bruxelles 23.08.1996

690 4:02.29 Carmen Douma CAN 12.03.77 10 Rieti 28.08.2005

699 4:02.32 Shireen Bailey GBR 27.09.59 7 Seoul 01.10.1988

788 4:02.64 Malindi Elmore CAN 13.03.80 4 Roma 02.07.2004

794 4:02.66 Margrit Klinger FRG 22.06.60 3 Köln 28.08.1983

829 4:02.77 Dolores Checa ESP 27.12.82 4 Athínai 13.07.2008

857 4:02.85 Paola Cacchi ITA 30.12.45 3 München 09.09.1972

857 4:02.85 Marla Runyan USA 04.01.69 6 Roma 12.07.2002

There are a few people on here I'm sure are cheats but just haven't been caught. I don't trust the Turk, and many (but not all) of the Europeans from the pre-random out-of-competition testing era. But this list is a lot cleaner than the official one.

wurth-thomas as lead off to willard to barringer with rowbury on the anchor...how do you like THEM apples?

I remeber being somewhat taken aback with CWT running 4:10 @ Arkansas when obviously overweight (for her event at that level). She has clearly lost at least ten lbs since then (also see Willard for this phenomenon)

So........why would you want your slowest runner to run anchor?

asdfasdfsdf wrote:

And where are all these data points coming from?

basic high school physics

derive it yourself...

Pete S. wrote:

So........why would you want your slowest runner to run anchor?

Do you honestly think Rowbury is the slowest runner of the bunch?

Man are you out of touch!

ventolin wrote:

asdfasdfsdf wrote:

And where are all these data points coming from?

basic high school physics

derive it yourself...

why don't you use it to support your argument, instead of pulling numbers out of your ass.

Wurth-Thomas should be held to the same standard as every Bahranian, Russian and Spaniard on this site, I think maybe some people need to actually consider trollisms point before responding.

jingle bowels wrote:

why don't you use it to support your argument, instead of pulling numbers out of your ass

eh ?

you going to accuse isaac newton of "pulling numbers out of my ass" because that's who originated it

It's not what I think. Has Shannon run a faster 1500 than either CWT or JB? If she has then I am out of touch, but if she hasn't than maybe it's you that is out of touch. Is SR on the list of American women to run sub 4? Just to put you in touch, the other 2 are, which means they are faster. What SR MIGHT do means nothing until she does it.

ventolin wrote:

eh ?

you going to accuse isaac newton of "pulling numbers out of my ass" because that's who originated it

I can't recall Newtons equation for showing you how fast you will run a 1500 depending on how much you weigh, maybe I missed it..

Why don't you tell us how you used the high school physics you are so proud of to get the numbers you did?

Til you do why should we give your numbers any credence?

Shannon has been gearing her season towards the World Championships, or at least I assume so by her lack of early season racing. Her PR is 4:00.xx and with her 60 second last lap at Nationals, she is showing that she is coming around as planned. I look for her to be sub-2:00 at 800 and ready to go in Berlin. 4:00-4:01 at Pre is great but doesn't mean much if you can't do it in July-August. I'm not saying that the others can't do it, but that she'll be ready when it counts.

What Shannon Rowbury HAS DONE is smoke Wurth and Willard at Nationals.

She HAS run 4:00.33, so if you want to be technical, her time is faster than Willards.

Rowbury HAS closed on more than one occassion in 60 seconds off of a very fast pace. None of the others have to my knowledge.

She is not the slowest runner in the bunch...trust me.

Unfortunately, it's hard to get the casual running fan to understand the difference between an athlete who is just starting her season with an athlete who has been racing all season.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

Rowbury will surprise a lot of people this year. She made a major statement at Nationals that she is one to be reckoned with.

She's got all the talent and tools to make big things happen.

just sayin, sr started her season out many months ago trying to create some vibe in the 5000. (cooks attempt to challenge sf)??? stronger?, maybe, faster, lets see how that 800 goes in paris.

I admire Rowbury and think she is the best of the bunch... yes, she did smoke W-T, but I don't think it's fair to say she "smoked" Willard at Nationals since Willard was racing so much more (the steeple no less...)

I for one would love to see a fresh Willard vs. a fresh Rowbury. I still think Rowbury wins, but that would be an awesome battle. Looks like we might see them in Paris in the 800 though!

Bottom line: American female milers are on the rise so it's all good!

Tenn Jed wrote:

just sayin, sr started her season out many months ago trying to create some vibe in the 5000. (cooks attempt to challenge sf)??? stronger?, maybe, faster, lets see how that 800 goes in paris.

Rowbury wasn't trying to creat "some vibe" in the 5000. She was working on her strength and ran one track race at that distance to test her fitness at that distance.

She stated that her goal was to hit the World's A standard and she fell short by 2+ seconds on a cold, windy, crappy night with zero competition.

Running a 5K in April does not really equate to starting your 1500 season in June.

Hmm so let me get this right. KWT's time is suspect because she has improved 5 seconds in the last 2-3 years. But Bolt who dropped OVER .3 in a 100 in ONE year is normal. Distance and mid distance runners often have a progression like that. That is FAR more common than Bolts case and it has nothing to do with his nationality. I have been following international T&F since I was a very young child and have NEVER seen ANYONE improve that much in a sprint at the world class level. Every one seems to be praising Bolt as this superstar so far be it of me to argue. But before you trash a gutsy runner like KWT do your homework.