Coach Cook shares his thoughts on what happened with Flannagan and Donohue

At that level? Um, personal motivation should be a given. If you still need a rah-rah coach as a pro then there's a problem and it's not the coach. I couldn't blame him for not wanting to work with an athlete who is so far ahead of herself and wants to set herself up for disappointment.

OK in the 1st degree wrote:

At that level? Um, personal motivation should be a given. If you still need a rah-rah coach as a pro then there's a problem and it's not the coach. I couldn't blame him for not wanting to work with an athlete who is so far ahead of herself and wants to set herself up for disappointment.

I didn't say "rah-rah". Only confidence, trust, and mutual consent. In fact, I also noted that "there are better and equally realistic ways to moderate goals."

You keep switching terms, inserting irrelevancies, or otherwise missing the point. It's not that hard, OK?

So far ahead of herself?

To be in contention for a medal she must make a final. She made the semis at the last Olympics. Finals in 2012 is a very reasonable goal. And depending on how the race shakes out, she can be in contention for a medal.

As for her time, she ran 4:05 for the 1500 in 2007. Do you think she doesn't have the ability to drop 1.25 seconds a year the next four years? Over the last four years her bests were 4:14, 4:16, 4:05, 4:07. You're telling me there's no possible room for improvement?

mayor mccheese wrote:

Four years ago would you have given Nick Willis a chance as an Olympic medalist?

Nick Willis? The guy who broke John Walker's 32 year old New Zealand Record and won gold in the commonwealth games? (Willis ran close to 4:00 flat in high school as I recall.) I would certainly have allowed it as a possibility albeit a remote one. Willis had the perfect race at the perfect time. If Donahue does the same thing, she finishes 7th in the semi-finals of the 2012 Olympics. I like Donahue but I agree with Cook that her goal of being in contention to medal in 2012 was simply not realistic.

Thank you for your input, genius. She ran 33:33 in the West Indies after that taking second to Elena Cheriyot by 6 seconds.

No, it's not that hard. He used his expertise to try to guide her expectations and give her better direction and focus. Her ego couldn't handle it. Time will tell who was more correct.

OK in the 1st degree wrote:

At that level? Um, personal motivation should be a given. If you still need a rah-rah coach as a pro then there's a problem and it's not the coach. I couldn't blame him for not wanting to work with an athlete who is so far ahead of herself and wants to set herself up for disappointment.

You also miss the distinction between "personal motivation" and "confidence". One can be both motivated and insecure. [Hint: think "fear-driven"] Happens all the time, even with elite athletes.

It seems that Donahue's problem is not one of motivation; if anything, you seem to imply that she is too ambitious ("so far ahead of herself") or over-confident in her abilities ("set herself up for disappointment.")

And the issue in my post was NOT whether it was right to "blame him [Cook] for not wanting to work with an athlete...", it was whether or not he is/was a good coach.

So, a message to you, "OK in the 1st degree": Think before you post. Use precise terms.

to be honest wrote:

Moes Tavern wrote:

Earlier this year I had a gal who ran 32:44 on a downhill course for 10km. Yes, its downhill, the course is certfied, but her legs did turn over that fast. She was a new athlete mentally after that. She'll race again now in April and we'll see if it still holds...

http://www.worldsfastest10k.com/

Elisha Kiror 25 1 25:43.4

2 James Kirwa

24 2 27:04.2

3 Chokri Dhaouadi

35 3 27:12.9

Women's

* 1 Hyvon N'getich

23 6 29:03.7

2 Jacquline Nyetipei

24 9 30:54.9

3 Debbie Arzola

34 11 32.44.2

Um, yeah, 25:43 and 29:03... not only downhill, but short. Your gal is kidding herself if she even considers herself a 33 min. 10K gal.

I always thought her coach/agent/overbearing old guy was an idiot.......

You're the one posting two replies to the same damn message.

OK in the 1st degree wrote:

You're the one posting two replies to the same damn message.

Yes, guilty as charged. Another irrelevancy on your part.

It's called "esprit d'escalier". More prosiacally, I thought of additional things to say regarding the flaws in your arguement. You gave me a lot to work with, packed a lot of fallacies in one short post, because you are sloppy with your terms.

The distinction between "motivation" and "confidence" is an important one.

Not that I take any joy in snapping you out of your fantasy here, but you're taking this a bit too seriously, Walter. This is just a message board discussion, lighten up. Oh, and it was perfectly relevant to the advice you should take yourself: think before posting.

If Donahue does the same thing, she finishes 7th in the semi-finals of the 2012 Olympics. I like Donahue but I agree with Cook that her goal of being in contention to medal in 2012 was simply not realistic.

Are people really this ridiculous?

So any runner, American or otherwise ,that in this point in time folks could not see them making an Olympic Final , or medaling, should give it up?

Man, a lot of you including me would have very little to do, there would be NO sport at all.

It is the pursuit of the dream and Pr's that keeps people going, if the sport only existed for 6-10 people per event and everyone else quit?

Wow, think about how many Pro Baseball or Football teams(well they do get paid, I guess they would go on), or better yet future Olympians would be out of the mix.

I find this rhetoric hysterical, and absurd.

On the math alone forget the fact I never thought Donahue a major prospect out of HS, she could easily get to sub 2:00 and 4:02 or so by age 27, easily reachable.

This was a 4:42, 2:10 person in HS, seriously, never give up on her, as determined a one as there is out there.

Probably would be playing in WNBA now if not a track star.Was a great, not good, hoops prospect growing up. Dribbled a mile under 6:00 in HS around the track.

Just a phenomenal kid who should never be limited by anyone, ask those she speaks to on behalf of Nike at camps.

OK in the 1st degree wrote:

Not that I take any joy in snapping you out of your fantasy here, but you're taking this a bit too seriously, Walter. This is just a message board discussion, lighten up. Oh, and it was perfectly relevant to the advice you should take yourself: think before posting.

I don't take it personally and neither should you--I take you even less seriously than I do myself! Best wishes and good night!

I would not have told Erin what she couldn't do, and I think it is possible that she can accomplish both of those things.

However, perhaps Cook felt, knowing Erin, that if he affirmed that she could then she would feel she "could" (already) and therefore would not "try" to accomplish them. Perhaps he knows the only way to get her to work hard is to tell her there's something she can't do. Personally I hate it when someone tells me there's something I can't do, particularly when it's something that I'm planning.

There are examples in this thread of posters who think they are (were) so good, but who aren't worth a bucket of cold spit. What they really need is someone to tell them to get off their old lazy asses to wake up before their lives are over and they're laying face down 6 feet under. But no, they probably won't ever realize that because it's already too late.

Kudos to Coach Cook for not wasting his time trying to please someone who couldn't be pleased, who was going to end up blaming him when she failed, and in the meantime continuing to be needy and demanding.

Kudos to Coach Cook for not wasting his time trying to please someone who couldn't be pleased, who was going to end up blaming him when she failed, and in the meantime continuing to be needy and demanding.

Again, you have no idea of the athlete's make up at all, Blamimg others? That would not be the Erin Donahue MO trust me.

You need to know the training dynamic of all and you do not, neither do I.

Erin Donahue is hardly needy or soft, to get where she has? Every ounce is given every time out. No tank jobs. Look it up.

Someone didn't take their medication today.

I started thinking about the Bowerman/Pre conflict about the mile early in Pre's career at the UofO.

Essentially Bowerman told him he is not a miler, it's time for him to move up and run the two mile (and beyond). Pre goes off in a huff, comes back and says OK, you're the coach.

Certainly this could be considered "negative", crushing one's dreams, type of coaching but it was realistic.

Was Cook doing something similar? Did he then tell her, like Bowerman did with Pre, there was a distance she had more of a chance of succeeding at?

Touché.

What are you smoking? And where can I get some?