lindgren was the hs xc goat of any state
lindgren was the hs xc goat of any state
Not sure why you posted under two different names, but I am HARDLY using time as a sole basis. I have been talking about WINNING--it is my first criteria. However, to say time is absolutely irrelevant is false. There has to be some way to measure against decades.
Matt Withrow beat Will McCann by 13 seconds. The field itself was not as strong as in recent years and past years. Withrow's more impressive accomplishment was placing 4th as a sophomore, and he was 2nd as a junior (not that he didn't have a spectacular senior year). He gets huge points for longevity and I will consider bumping him off and putting him ahead of Sitko.
But if I put Withrow in, why not Pifer? Pifer won the title his senior year, was 3rd as a junior, 22nd as a sophomore. I am focusing on Illinois running--not Footlocker, etc.
IMHO, Withrow was no Donald Sage. Sage had a more impressive showing than Withrow as a Illinois high schooler--All state as a frosh, then second the next two years to Jorge Torres--one of Illinois' all time greats, and then a dominant performance his senior year for the title. To me, I see a difference between someone like Sage and Withrow. The only person Sage lost to in three years was one guy. ONE. Withrow cannot say the same.
If you want to talk about WINNING, should one-time champions even be considered for the list? That is only one year of winning?
olympians wrote:
good point, I was mainly referring to Torres being the best in Illinois
Oh haha sorry. Well in that case that is a definite "yes".
sunday satch wrote:
lindgren was the hs xc goat of any state
What are his credentials? I don't know much about his hs career. I'm not surprised he is a beast at XC.
According to
http://www.wiaa.com/athletics/xc/history.htm
in 1961 he was 2nd at State, 11:31; 1962, 1st in 11:06 (2nd was 11:24); 1963, 1st in 10:47.5 (2nd was 11:31) All distances were 2.3 miles. According to his autobiography, Lindgren always ran all out from the start in every race.
His senior year he ran 8:40 for two miles indoors versus Ron Clarke and of course there was the famous race against the Russians in 1964 at 10k and making the Olympic team the same year.
Re Illinois - Virgin was incomparable in Illinois. But people don't remember forget just how great of a cross country runner Tom Graves was. He was just incredibly powerful - so much so that even superior speed didn't help in a cross country race. I can't see anyone except Virgin beating him in any high cross country school race in Illinois. Perhaps Jim Spivey can weigh in with his views.
I think you meant Isaac Hawkins from Ferris High, Spokane. As a recall, he was a good one. the Davis's from Mead, also.
To rank Washington, I'd say:
1) Lindgren (1961-63)
2) Randy James (Ferris-Spokane, 1968-69 state champ)
3) Matt Davis (1991-93; Mead) 14:09 3-mile
4) Adam Tenforde (Hanford 1996-98) Still holds state course record, 15:10
NY-
1)Trautman
2) Gegorek
3) McDougal
You were right--I botched the name. I only saw him once in High School.
Also, I'm a tool for forgetting Lindgren and Tenforde. Both were fantastic HS XC runners.
awwwwwwyeahhhhhh!!!! wrote:
Rudy Chapa is better than any of the guys listed. The little Dyestat kids will crawl all over themselves to tell us how much better Fernandez or Derrick are, but neither one of them ran 28:32 10K in HS. That's back to back 14:16 5K pace. That's amazing for a HS kid!!!!
Chapa would have killed Derrick....Fernandez is in his league but Chapa was better.
Doubtful, considering Derrick beat Fernandez the only time they raced last year.
Besides, while 28:32 is exceptional, I thought we were talking about cross-country.
For Missouri my home state:
Falcon (3:49)
Tegenkamp (13:04, Worlds & Olympics - he may be the best)
Curp (WR Half Marathon)
Quick Kick wrote:
For Missouri my home state:
Falcon (3:49)
Tegenkamp (13:04, Worlds & Olympics - he may be the best)
Curp (WR Half Marathon)
wow I had no idea they ran those times in high school...
Falcon had the state record on the XC course at Jefferson City, and then Tegenkamp broke it. Curp didn't do much in high school. Falcon as I remember it ran hi 8 for 32 for low 4 for 16. Oh, and there Pyrah who I ran against in conference. He wasn't much of a XC guy but that 4:04 was nice.
perspectivess wrote:
Quick Kick wrote:For Missouri my home state:
Falcon (3:49)
Tegenkamp (13:04, Worlds & Olympics - he may be the best)
Curp (WR Half Marathon)
wow I had no idea they ran those times in high school...
Falcon is virtually a no-name. Tegenkamp is hands down the winner in our home state of Missouri. Pyrah ran 4:03 in the mile, putting him on the map, but like you said, he wasn't much of a XC guy. But on the topic of XC (which is what this thread is about) Missouri goes as follows:
1. Matt Tegenkamp
2. Josh Harper
3. Jon Hatley
4. Jason Sanford
5. Adam Perkins
I'm not from Missouri but I know enough that Chris Borsa should be on that list. Chris Zinn would probably be right after top 5.
As far as Falcon being a no name, didn't he triple 1:53-4:08-8:55 at the state meet his senior year? I wouldn't think that would be forgotten.
Joe Falcon was the most talented American distance runner period. Mainly because unlike all the others he had a legitimate finishing kick.
I don't know enough about Illinois' illustrious distance running history to talk about it definitively, but I think it's pretty silly to ignore Footlocker in the equation. Withrow dominated the regional and won Footlocker in gutsy fashion over one of the greatest Footlocker classes of all time. He definitely belongs on the list ahead of some of the people I've never heard of. Virgin and Graves are obviously near the very top, and Sage had a great career (I don't know if he could've beaten Withrow, head to head as seniors), but I'm going to need to stats and/or stories before placing anyone else above Withrow.
sluggo wrote:
I'm not from Missouri but I know enough that Chris Borsa should be on that list. Chris Zinn would probably be right after top 5.
As far as Falcon being a no name, didn't he triple 1:53-4:08-8:55 at the state meet his senior year? I wouldn't think that would be forgotten.
Joe Falcon was the most talented American distance runner period. Mainly because unlike all the others he had a legitimate finishing kick.
I'll give you the Borsa comment... but need I remind you that we're talking about CROSS COUNTRY. Read the title of the thread, idiot. I don't care if Falcon ran 1:46-3:55-8:30 ... none of those times are cross country, therefore doesn't apply. Don't post stupid shit. Thanks.
After reading everyone's lists and comments, only one thing can be concluded: Illinois has produced greater cross country runners than any other state.
Quite possibly, although California is up there, too. Nelson, Hulst, Fernandez, Hall, Reynolds, Kimball (don't know much about him)
worst state - Alaska- their most famous runner is Sarah Palin