Michael Phelps "most decorated olympian"...not necessarily "greatest"

pantsed wrote:

thanks for proving my point. there ARE NOT those extra events for Bekele.

I'm not proving your point, we're just in agreement. I am merely stating the obvious that T&F athletes have fewer opportunities to medal than swimmers.

This is unlike swimming, where phelps could go win anything.

Hey we agree on another thing. That Phelps can go and win anything. But here's an important difference. Phelps and only Phelps has done it (Spitz was a two trick pony). You seem to think that because Phelps can do it anyone in swimming can. This is like saying anyone in T&F can do what Carl Lewis did (100, 200, 4x100, LJ). What Phelps is doing is seemingly impossible, even though he has, in theory, lots of opportunities.

2 is the max most have a chance for (100m/4x100m, triple jump/long jump, etc...)

No actually 3 is quite common; 100, 200, 4x100.

What I don't like is that we can't have, at a minimum, the equivalent number of events in distance running as they do in sprinting. Why aren't there distance relays? I guess I know why but it doesn't make it right. Because of this inequity a distance runner will have a very hard time becoming the Greatest Olympian ever. For now that title belongs to Mr. Phelps.

So here's for adding distance relays and xc to the Olympic schedule. They could make room for it by dropping rhythmic gymnastics and yes, the venerable sport of synchronized diving.

Too subjective to say the greatest when you have people like Teofile Stevenson who won gold in 3 consecutive Olympics and got boycotted out of a shot at 4 or Zatopek. I want to see someone win the 5 and 10 in one Olympics and then try to win the marathon too.

Phil Hersh puts Phelps as greatest olympian NUMBER SIX. Not just behind Lewis and Nurmi, but several others as well:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/305/story/48260.html

Remember that Phelps himself isn't part of the hype. As he said in the article, he just goes out and swims.

After watching Phelps steal that 100 fly I think that I've finally run out of superlatives. The guy is a shark. He's got some kind of innate knack for winning. FYI for those who are about to race him; do not piss him off...

On another note, watching a human jog a 9.92 leads me to believe that we should nominate Bolt for some type of "Greatest" title. That was almost as surreal as Phelps win tonight. The 100m final may be the beginning of a beautiful relationship (even though I picked Gay to win)...

Can we call Phelps the greatest yet?

What? We have to wait another day and you guys will still be complaining that 8 gold medals in one Olympics is nothing? Ok cool, well I'm going to call him the greatest Olympian... well cause I want to.

As for bolt jogging 9.92. He should. The guy runs 9.72. The time he ran tonight is ridiculously slower than his PR. I know 9.92 is an insane time.... in 1988. This guy runs in the low 9.7's though.

good, he won 8, now hopefully everyone can stop talking about him now.. the media is making me actually start to hate the guy...

Apples and Orugala. You can't compare a swimmer to a runner. Phelps is phenomenal, but we'll never know what he could do on land. I doubt HE even cares, why should we.

but if you must...Look what happened when Armstrong ran his first marathon. He was dominant in cycling for as long as Phelps in the pool. No one expected a world record, but did he even break 3 HOURS? Something MOST collegiate distance runners could do in a weekend workout.

There is only one way to run, one chance to medal per distance. I guess you could have runners line up backwards for one race and see who wins. Then you could have them hop on two legs and flap there arms for another race. Perhaps a dominant force would emerge in the 5000M hop-flap, but they wouldn't be allowed in either Olympics. (Wait for it... ;)

I think Phelps is decent, but if I go to Jamaica, take 8 guys who didn't make the Olympic teams in the sprints and bring them back to the states. Train half in swimming Phelps' events, then Phelps wouldn't stand a chance at London. The other half I would train in bobsledding and all we would yell would be...............COOOOOOOOOOOL RUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGSSSSSSSSS

I agree.

Paavo Nurmi recieved 9 Gold Medals and 3 Silver Medals.

But that was only being able to do 4 events per olympics.

Nurmi was way ahead of his time.

in the 1924 Games, he displayed the best performance by a runner ever. He had 26 minutes in between the 1500m and 5000m finals.

Lets just see Phelps break 39 World Records in 5 months like Nurmi.

Phelps is good at what he does, i wouldnt say he is the greatest olympian ever.

I agree, but I also have to state that I really do not think anyone can be described as the 'greatest olympian ever'. There are so many different sports, you really cannot compare a dominant swimmer, to a runner, to a wrestler, etc. Much less athletes that did not have the advantages modern day athletes have (getting paid to train as a full time job, different track surfaces, lighter spikes, lighter bikes, diets, swimsuits, etc.)

With this being said though, I think he could be considered 'One of the Greatest Olympians Ever' and certainly be mentioned in the 'One of the Greatest Olympic Feats Ever' catagory.

By the way, I can't wait to see him and Chad Johnson square off. I predict that they both pull their hammies and DNF.

Swimming strokes vs Running

No comparison.

First you can't compare distance events to sprints in either one, it's same from track to track, sprinters have a better chance at more gold than distance because of recovery time and sheer volume.

So you have to compare track sprinting to pool sprinting. Phelps' distances varried only slightly mostly 200meters with some 100's in there and a 400. Sounds like the track equivalent is Usain Bolt to me.

If you want to generate 8 similar events to Phelps' for bolt to compete in you have to come up with 4 diffrent running styles that compare to the main 4 swimming strokes.

Free = Straight Sprint

Backstroke = Backwards Running

Breast = Bounding

Butterfly = Skipping

So in order for Usain to compare to Michael he would have to win the:

200m (normal)

100m skip

200m skip

200m individual medley

400m individual medley

4x100m (normal)

4x200m (as seen in HS relay meets)

4x100m medley relay

I have no bout that Usain bolt can cover a distance of 100 - 200 meters faster than me wether he is skipping, bounding or running backwards if I have to do the same I'm in trouble. (even if I get to sprint I'm in trouble)

The track equivalents to swimming strokes are race walking and triple jump, although triple is generally accepted, both are a little silly. Why not just judge who jumps farther or runs faster instead of adding in wierd movement rules?

Swimming is unique and cannot be compared adequetly to other sports, even other race sports.

Marathon Predicter 101 wrote:

I agree.

Paavo Nurmi recieved 9 Gold Medals and 3 Silver Medals.

This should go with an asterisk. Because the sport just wasn't as competitive back in the early 20th century as it is now. I don't think Phelps is necessarily the greatest Olympian ever, but I'd say it's even sillier to compare performances 90 years apart than to compare different sports.

Do you just not get it? The 100m and 200m on the track are essentially the same thing - these are two different "strokes" of the same distance. You cannot say that 100m on the track and in the pool should be compared to each other. 100m in the pool is like 200m on the track and 200m in the pool is like 400m-800m on the track. So have a guy win the 200m and the 400m (MJ) and that is like someone winning the 100mfree and 200mfree. The 100m, 200m, long jump, triple jump, hurdles, (throw in the 400m) etc are all variations (read: "strokes") for sprinters. Just because somebody does not focus on all of them in track doesn't mean it can't be done (look at Carl Lewis). The ONLY difference comes from the recovery factor - it IS HARDER for a track athlete to physically compete in all of these events (read: compete in as many events as a swimmer) because of physical limitations, not because of the "lack of" events. Yes, there are a few less events (I think it is like 16 (swimming) to 13 (track - not field, so no long or triple)) but the big difference in track and the pool is the lack of "middle distance events". A middle distance swimmer (400m) can move down to the 200m, but the 800m/1500m track guys can touch the 400 and really have a hard time touching both those events. And distance runners kind of have a better opportunity than the distance swimmers - the distance swimmers only have the 1500m (maybe some can touch the 400m) whereas the distance track guys have the 1500m, 5000m, 10000m, and the 3000msteeple.

It is time to get over yourself track "enthusiasts" - swimming cannot be compared to running and running cannot be compared to swimming. Therefore swimming is not "easier" than running and running is not "easier" than swimming.

No he's not the most decorated. I saw a male rhythmic gymnast who had 3 colored hair (green, red and blue), multiple earrings and all sorts of ribbons on his warm-ups. I'd say he was more decorated than most Christmas trees and definately more so than Phelps' little cowlick in his hair.

Where are the moderators when you need them? All these ignorant letsrunners are having a good time comparing swimming to skipping and along comes this guy who wants to inject some reason into the thread – that clearly is in violation of the LRC creed. Someone needs to delete this guy’s post before these ignoramuses blow a fuse…

sheeeeesh wrote:

Do you just not get it?... The 100m, 200m, long jump, triple jump, hurdles, (throw in the 400m) etc are all variations (read: "strokes") for sprinters.

How hard could it be to get Gold in Track and Field?

800, 1500, 5k, 10k? All you have to do is go for a jog and sprint the last 150 meters to beat everyone.

Long jump? Give me a break! When was the last time there was a drowning in a sand box?

Throw the Stick???

Jump over the Stick???

Use a stick to jump over another Stick???

And these "Athletes" only do one or two events?

SCOREBOARD

Think about it

Lance Amrstrong a World Class Triathlete at 18 and Tour De france winner or Shelia Tormina three Olympics , three different sports, Swimming,Triathlon, Modern Pentathlon

Those names are to be serious consideration in this topic

Phelps is clearly a special athlete, but in 20 years when people are looking back on the Beijing games, they'll be remembering it for Usain Bolt.