Russian 1500m Women Suspended

what it means is that the known samples - those collected at competitions when they were unable to substitute their samples - did not have the same DNA profiles as those collected out of competition. In other words different people supplied the OOC samples - not necessarily one single supplier (even they are not that stupid).

I suppose those collecting samples out of comp should be fired

or brought to court!!??

No, I', not saying I need absolute proof. I'm just tired of the people who think that EVERY runner is juiced. That's it. Reading letsrun- Salazar and everyone coached by him is doping. Where is there any proof? Just because they run fast? Ever since running has been organized times have been getting faster. Just because someone achieves something isn't proof of their doping.

I think the Chinese are suspect, I thought the Russians were suspect, but until they get caught- there is no reason to accuse them.

It is easy to be a synic and simply say- they're cheats. Then, when someone gets caught you're right. But, you keep silent on all the ones you're wrong about. See what I mean?

Those who accuse everyone are as bad as the ones who slam Rupp no matter what he does. They're probably all the same pimply faced loser using many different names.

Yes, it would be naive to think EVERYONE is innocent. Just as naive as thinking EVERYONE cheats. Give them the benefit of hard training until they are caught.

de./r wrote:

jelimo is a f***ing cheater.

i think that 90% of the athlete's at the olympics are or have been dopers. thats just my opinion but if you think that alot of athletes don't dope in the off season you're f***ing stupid.

I maintain that Jelimo is more man than her competitors, while your 90% figure has no basis in reality.

You seem very convinced of that. Just why are you so sure? Did you do some research yourself?

This is silly. Out of competition testing is done for all athletes that are identified as high performers.I myself have seen what appear to be IAAF or WADA officials escort elite athletes to a testing area.This happened in the banks club dinning hall. They came in ... they asked gebre gebremariam, m defar and one other athlete that i can't remember now to follow them. They went in a room and tested them and that was that. This was in early 2007... March i thinkI am in no shape or form knowledgeable about doping.. but i am just sharing what i saw. Also, if drugs were available to ethiopian athletes they will be taking it by the boat load. people here are trying to get rich quick and escape poverty ... .so they will do anything to have that edge. we are talking about guys that were making a $1 a day 2 years ago... I am not saying that elite athletes don't take drugs period... there maybe some that do... and i have my own suspicions.. but those suspicions are not realistic when you think about how these athletes developed... if you look at dibaba.. she went from 15:03 to 14:40ish to 14:30's to 14:11 (we knew her outdoor pb was a joke)... they were big chunks... but we always saw her improve year after year in reasonable incriments.. then when you see elvan abeylegesse, suriha ayhan or brihane adere.. it was overnight.. they went from 15 and 32 for 5 and 10 to being 14:30. With the russians and the chinese the times were all run in there country but no outside... which made no sense.Its also weird that one gender is strong while the other isn't. Russian and chinese women run fast .. the men don't.So all these factors have to be considered... in beliving that training methods, natural ability is the reason for good performance and not some artifical intervention.

brit73 wrote:

Out of competition testing catches a few Russian atheltes. Big shock, heh?

What about the Ethiopians then? No out of competition testing at all, because they are not of one of the 8 nations worldwide that do out of competition testing. They disappear into the mountains, so even if the IAAF wanted to catch them out of competition it would be unlikey they would find them to test them.

Remember Bekele's 18 year old fiance died of a heart attack while on a training run!

I have sympathy, I am Western and do not have financial concerns. But it isn't a level playing field. Paula and Jo Pavey have done very well to battle against science.

My suspicions are founded and are based relationships within the British running community.

I've been very fortunate to receieve a lot of first hand input.

...Do you think that Bolt was on drugs when he ran 20.12 as a 15yr old? The guy is just a freak.

Are you saying his age is proof he was not on drugs? If you spend a couple of days in the bodybuilding forums you'll come to learn how many kids are using. These kids aren't even looking at an athletic career, yet they risk their health against the advice of many. I know I'm cynical. It's just curiosity. Others have pointed to youth as a 'sign' of a clean athlete. I'm wondering if that is your point.

Thanks

Methuselah wrote:

...Do you think that Bolt was on drugs when he ran 20.12 as a 15yr old? The guy is just a freak.

Are you saying his age is proof he was not on drugs?

Thanks

I think what he is saying is that the biggest suspects of cheating usually occur when an athlete goes from nobody to superstar in a very short period of time.

Look at T. Montgomery, yeah he was a national class sprinter, but not a world beater.. then suddenly he's setting WRs.

That's not saying that those type of athletes don't use, but you are less likely to suspect someone who has been at the top in HS, then collegiate, then national, and international through out their career.

I've been very fortunate to receieve a lot of first hand input.[/quote]

Where did you put your hand first? What did you do next? Elaborate please. I've always wondered how one did a gender test.

From today’s NY times we learn how IAAF became suspicious of the Russians (starting in '06) and how athletes can substitute the urine of others in an out-of-competition test.

"A track official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the I.A.A.F. had grown suspicious of Russian drug-testing results as far back as 2006. The tests, given out of competition, were so tidily and uniformly negative that “it was almost too good to be true,” the official said. In 2007, from March to July, the I.A.A.F. began to store out-of-competition tests given to Russian athletes. Those tests from 2007 were later compared using DNA analysis to tests given during competitions this year. “They were obviously giving someone else’s samples,” the track official said.

The use of substitute urine is a well-known method for trying to manipulate drug screenings. Anti-doping monitors are supposed to witness each sample being provided to make sure it is genuine. In order to subvert this vigilance, some athletes have been known to use a catheter to fill their bladders with someone else’s urine, so it appears that they are giving a legitimate sample when they are not. Some women have also inserted condoms filled with clean urine into their vaginas to beat drug tests."

AND HOW THE CHINESE TOOK THE GREEKS OUT OF THE OLYMPICS:

"In other doping-related news, Chinese officials said that medical supplies produced by a Shanghai company were illegally sold to Greece, leading to positive drug tests earlier this year that resulted in the disqualification of 11 Greek weight lifters from the Beijing Olympics. The Chinese authorities offered few details, other than to say that the Shanghai company, Auspure, had sold the raw ingredients for a “doping formula” to Greek officials. The company’s license has been suspended."

I'd be shocked if the IAAF doesn't announce rather soon that they caught another batch of Russian 800m & 5000m runners doping. The 7 they caught may be more than the tip of the iceberg, but it's far from the entire iceberg.

This is a huge story, I think the olympic coverage will be all over this when the games start. Imagine the extent these women went through to cheat. Does anyone how this works, I thought they had to be observed actually urinated.

calling it right now: Jordan Hasay Suspended for Doping in 2010

That girl walking around with a champagne bottle in her hand is Shannon Rowbury :)

deuchebaggery wrote:

Methuselah wrote:

Are you saying his age is proof he was not on drugs?

Thanks

I think what he is saying is that the biggest suspects of cheating usually occur when an athlete goes from nobody to superstar in a very short period of time.

Look at T. Montgomery, yeah he was a national class sprinter, but not a world beater.. then suddenly he's setting WRs.

That's not saying that those type of athletes don't use, but you are less likely to suspect someone who has been at the top in HS, then collegiate, then national, and international through out their career.

TM caught a 2.0mps wind as well; at 0.0 like MG had he was a mere 10-second sprinter -- good but not great.

J.R. wrote:

They are "suspected" and removed, therefore no rights to appeal because they have not been "disqualified"?

That totally stinks.

IMO the IAAF perpetrators are the offending party here, not the athletics.

No evidence, no supporting documents, no clue of what happened. Perhaps they shuffled around the samples and got them mixed up. Perhaps the samples from a year ago were no longer discernable. The IAAF is looking more and more clueless, and should not be in charge of the athlete's careers.

Yep.

Soboleva says IAAF ban a plot to derail Russian hopes

Guilty by association......What if, she really is innocence? Nobody on this site would give a shit! And what if a Russian woman did win the a Gold metal and was actually CLEAN? Would anyone believe she is clean? Nope...sort of sad.

Those Ethiopian Girls always seem to get a free pass....why? Seems to me all those records in such a short time would be reason for suspect.

I can see why the Kenyan women are to be believed as clean runners......they are proven distance running Gods....but the Ethiopian women came out of no where just a few years ago, then went on to destroy the distance records! Yet, they will be in the Olympics and the Russian will not. Seems a little silly for all those Russians to take a chance with drug tests right before the Olympics, especially if they where actually dirty? Plus the fact all seven banded together to fake thier drug drops?...sounds like a fishy to me. If in fact no one was tested positive for drugs and these girls are being set up just before the Olympics has to be one of the biggest tragedies of all time in sports and athletics.

Ethiopia has no strength in depth. Just the ones breaking the records.

Why has Ethiopia got no strength in depth?

Let's see... What was going on in Ethiopia before 1992... Oh yeah!! An incredibly repressive Soviet alligned regime that killed more than 1,000,000 Ethiopians during it's rule dating back to the fall of Haile Selassie! And the famines that killed millions more! And three boycotts in four Olympiads! Gosh, I can't figure out why they didn't produce a host of world beaters under those oh so ideal conditions!

And Ethiopia's women have just started running well this year, right? Except for Derartu Tulu's Olympic golds in 1992 and 2000, Gete Wami's world track titles, Fatuma Roba's Olympic gold in 1996. Because sooo many other countries have better more female distance golds than Ethiopia, like...?