[quote]hmm ? wrote:
To add to this silly debate, Fernandez has now run the fastest "8-lap race in HS history," as 8:34 is faster than 8:36. And "that's a fact."[/quote
Wait a second! I ran an 8 lap race in 4:27 this February. That's much faster then 8:34.
Is he still planning on going to Okie State?
Avocados Number wrote:
A more typical and less refreshing post.
This is not merely the second part of a great double. It is a great new national high school record. Nelson's 2-mile time was outstanding, fully deserving of its legendary status, but it was not in high school competition. Nelson didn't even win the race (he was third), so he had the real physiological advantage of pacers throughout the race. Webb's 3:53 at Pre was even more of an aided performance.
more typical than jumping on the nuts of the latest elite HS runner? huh. if i recall, people were ready with the same predictions for acosta last year. it's the crowning of each year's best runner as the "best ever" that's typical.
look, it's an amazing performance. the best high school double of all time. that's pretty damned impressive. it's a state championship (is CIF states? i'm not from cali) and a 3200m national record. it's weaker than the 2mi record, but only by a hair. all that said, the fact that it's part of a double really only matters as far as what it indicates he is capable of in the near future.
there's no award for the best 1600-3200m double.
it's not a national championship.
it beat an obscure record (3200m, not 2mi)
let him get an LEGIT national record or national title before you start crowning him the next webb, ritz or ryun. if there was proof that some hs kid ran a 4:55 2k in practice, would you call him the best hs runner of all time? no! you'd wait for him to get the 1mi/2mi national record or win a national championship! sure, that's a bit more extreme, but it's the same idea.
Deutschland wrote:
Is he still planning on going to Okie State?
You ever heard of signing a letter of intent? They're not unbreakable by any means, but not many athletes change their mind after committing.
You ARE wrongo! wrote:
Please, enlighten us as to why this is true? Lack of longevity, perhaps? You are absolutely right... a record that stands for almost 30 years simply must be weak!!
no matter which way you slice it, an 8:36 2mi is a lesser performance than a 3:53 mile. as long as both are run on standard running tracks, a 3:53 mile is closer in quality to a 8:25 2mi. hell, of all the performance calculators, the purdy points is the most generous at 3:53.43=8:23.4; a more common equivalent is around 8:20.
criticized choice wrote:
Deutschland wrote:Is he still planning on going to Okie State?
You ever heard of signing a letter of intent? They're not unbreakable by any means, but not many athletes change their mind after committing.
Yes, I have heard of signing a letter of intent. I knew he was committed there, but wasn't sure if he had changed his mind. Nonetheless, thanks for answering my question.
wrongo wrote:
let him get an LEGIT national record or national title before you start crowning him the next webb, ritz or ryun.
i'd be willing to bet that all three would claim, without hesitation, that they couldn't run 4:00/8:34 in high school with two hours rest...
great performance.
as someone already stated, the 2 mile record is one of the weakest on the books. 836 is nowhere near the 800m, 1500m, mile, or 5k records. if he runs the 2 mile at pre he should get it. he won't get it at the high school meet, its hot/humid every year there. that's one reason that record stays around, at the biggest hs 2 mile of the year its crappy conditions. pre classic should just host their own hs 2 mile every year as part of the meet. hs kids would love running there instead of hot ass north carolina. better weather, better stadium, better fans, etc.
lol@tards wrote:
i'd be willing to bet that all three would claim, without hesitation, that they couldn't run 4:00/8:34 in high school with two hours rest...
1) you're right, because they don't need to prove anything. especially compared to a kid with no national championships and no (legit) national records.
2) i would bet, without hesitation, that webb could have run that double in high school with two hours rest. i would also bet (with a bit of hesitation) that ryun could've done it- he did run an 8:22 the following year. 4:00 wouldn't have affected either of them enough to slow them down in a 2mi two hours later.
3) ritz is on the list, not for his track times, but because he beat arguably the best footlocker field ever, then beat webb and hall the following year.
German Fernandez might end up being one of the best ever, but he isn't yet. why not? because you need AT LEAST a national record or a national title to be considered one of the best. his 3200 isn't as good as the 2mi record, so you can just quit it with that, and he has no national titles. he isn't there yet.
Jeff Nelson held the course record at Mt. SAC for many, many years! That feat is worth at LEAST as much as the Footlocker title, and probably more.[/quote]
Nelson's course record at Mt. Sac was never broken. The course was shortend in 1999 by 80 yards.
Video 8:34 - second half of a mind-blowing day in California
http://www.dyestat.com/?pg=videos&vid=66535C2B8DB73B4A
Enjoy - amazing watch in person
go german wrote:
I think he has a great shot at both sub 4:00y and the 2 mile record as well. If he got both, he has to be up there with Webb, Ryun, Lindgren.
Yeah, he looks like an all-timer. The clowns who think he could have hung with Webb in a mile though are being just that, clowns. German is a 5k runner. I think he's got a shot at Rupp's 5k record. German could probably hit 3:58 in a full mile with competition, but not 3:53 or even 3:55. I wouldn't doubt he can hit 8:25 at Pre if he runs his own race. By the way, Ryun and Webb (and Nelson, Lindgren and others) didn't have their races set up for them. That's also ridiculous thinking. Ryun in fact was gunning for Snell, not so much any record. Webb was after Ryun's record but he was racing. Watch his record on Youtube. Give all of the great runners who've showed up the last 7 - 8 years credit. It's great to see after the doldrums from the early/mid 80's to the late 90's.
LARRY B. wrote:
I dont understand how both Derrick and Fernandez didn't win footlocker.
because only one person can be the winner.
He was lapping people in a CA state meet 3200. That is mindboggling to me.
The kid did an amazing job and ran great times dont get me wrong it is impressive. But to even mention anything about World Records is absurd. People seem to forget that progression especially when you run a fast time to start out with get more difficult.
Does anyone realize what our under 19 year old african counterparts do at this age?
How many go sub 4?
How many can go and run an 8:34 and then keep going for another mile?
If we would put it into perspective maybe we would see more American Highschoolers run like this. But overall if you look on the world stage (which is what we need to be looking towards) 4:00 and 8:34 for an 18 year old is not really a dent.
World Junior Performance list
13:09 is like 4:14 pace and it is last on the list. Granted some names are on there more than once.
I mean I think 4:00 and 8:34 are very good. But by getting so excitied about these times are we essentially making americans slower? These kids see these highschool records and go for them. Would they still go for the records if they were faster? Would 8:50 be the "new" 9 minute barrier?
If we want to start competing on the world stage we need to start it in highschool. GF has taken a good step forward hopeflly other highschoolers will see that "it can be done" and we will start to see more fast times.
I say this is a great triple!
Run 1600, then 3200, then work at Applebees! This kid is blue collar and hard working. The work ethic and determination of Brian Sell and talent of Ryan Hall. wow, wow, wow. He will have the 5k American record by 2011.
defintely the most amazing distance double ever.
i would say this puts him in the league of webb, ryun, and lindgren. definitely not better than them, but in the same league. i'd say it puts him a bit behind those three but at least in their company. i went to high school with and ran with alan and i don't know if he could've run this double or not, but none of us had any doubt that he could've run under 8:35 for the full 2 miles if he ran it outdoors our senior year. but the fact is he didn't and this double (not to mention is 3200 by itself) is one for the history books!
Another fact to point out in recognizing how difficult it is to win this double in Calif, in addition to his amazing record times, is that the last runner to accomplish it was a Calif high schooler named Meb Keflezighi.