Sure Yummy God forbit that Jeremy Wariner or Susana Kalur would have competed in the 80s , ........You will point them out like crazy now, just because they are white succesfull sprinters.....
Shitty comment about Powell as well, get you head out of your ass.
goducks wrote:
No Women are even coming close to flojo's 100 and 200 time, Marita Koch's 400 Jarmila's 800, while on the men's side the 100 record is being broken yearly, Wariner is knocking on the door of the 400 and the 800 record was set 10-11 years ago (I don't know enough to say if people are running realistically close to this record nowadays). But doesn't it seem like if the drugs are just as good if not better now than they were then, than people should be at least coming close to these records. The Women's heptathlon, discus, shot put, and 100 hurdles are similarly out of reach. Is HGH less effective than the anabolic steroids people were taking in the 80's?
Paula Radcliff?
Sonia O'Sullivan has run under 4mins FOUR times during her career ...
In addition, Zola Budd, Carla Sacremento, Hayley Tullet, Gabriella Dorio, Anita Weyermann, Maryam Yusuf Jamal, Kutre Delecha, Hassiba Boulmerka have all run under 4.00mins. The list goes on.
That post was sarcasm, right?
Good one!
cuz they suck!
No Women are even coming close to flojo's 100 and 200 time, Marita Koch's 400 Jarmila's 800, while on the men's side the 100 record is being broken yearly, Wariner is knocking on the door of the 400 and the 800 record was set 10-11 years ago (I don't know enough to say if people are running realistically close to this record nowadays). But doesn't it seem like if the drugs are just as good if not better now than they were then, than people should be at least coming close to these records. The Women's heptathlon, discus, shot put, and 100 hurdles are similarly out of reach. Is HGH less effective than the anabolic steroids people were taking in the 80's?[/quote]
KneeJerkitis abounds. Clearly, unless someone gives many of you guys an outline and Cliff's Notes, you cannot follow an argument.
It is painfully obvious to me that the post was saying that Kenyans are no different than any other groups - there is corruption in the government, the governing body of athletics, civil strife, political turmoil and the like. If this is true, then why would the distance runners be any different than anyone else?
The lack of reasoning and critical thinking skills truly amazes me.
Sesame Stweet wrote:
Sonia O'Sullivan has run under 4mins FOUR times during her career ...In addition, Zola Budd, Carla Sacremento, Hayley Tullet, Gabriella Dorio, Anita Weyermann, Maryam Yusuf Jamal, Kutre Delecha, Hassiba Boulmerka have all run under 4.00mins. The list goes on.
That post was sarcasm, right?
Good one!
What the hell are you talking about?!?! I was responding to a stupid post by somebody saying that nobody has run the women's 1500m under 4 mins CLEAN by listing some clean athletes to have achieved such a feat.
04072511 wrote:
I was responding to a stupid post by somebody saying that nobody has run the women's 1500m under 4 mins CLEAN by listing some clean athletes to have achieved such a feat.
I'm still getting a good chuckle out of that list and the word "clean" on the same page. If we could prove beyond doubt who was doping, I'd wager at least 5 out of 8 on that list (and probably all 8) were anything but clean at the time(s) they broke 4:00. But we can't prove it, at least not for most of that crowd, so it's mostly opinions and guesses. My guess just happens to be most or all of them were dirty. Your guess is they weren't. Nobody can really know if an athlete is clean except the athlete, and even they might be getting something spiked by another involved party and never realize it. Let's hope we can catch almost all the cheats at some point so we can reduce the guesswork and be more sure what performances are really accomplished by human athletic achievement.
Sesame Stweet wrote:
04072511 wrote:I was responding to a stupid post by somebody saying that nobody has run the women's 1500m under 4 mins CLEAN by listing some clean athletes to have achieved such a feat.
I'm still getting a good chuckle out of that list and the word "clean" on the same page. If we could prove beyond doubt who was doping, I'd wager at least 5 out of 8 on that list (and probably all 8) were anything but clean at the time(s) they broke 4:00. But we can't prove it, at least not for most of that crowd, so it's mostly opinions and guesses. My guess just happens to be most or all of them were dirty. Your guess is they weren't. Nobody can really know if an athlete is clean except the athlete, and even they might be getting something spiked by another involved party and never realize it. Let's hope we can catch almost all the cheats at some point so we can reduce the guesswork and be more sure what performances are really accomplished by human athletic achievement.
Well thats a very cynical viewpoint. Why bother watch the sport if you're going to be thinking like that. You are an example of somebody who brands everyone a cheat due to the moderately few people that do cheat. I couldnt disagree more with you and I'm certain most people on these boards feel the same. Believe it or not, not everybody is an assho1e with no morals. Some people ACTUALLY believe cheating is wrong and want to achieve greatness from natural means.
Smonkey Banana wrote:
It is painfully obvious to me that the post was saying that Kenyans are no different than any other groups - there is corruption in the government, the governing body of athletics, civil strife, political turmoil and the like. If this is true, then why would the distance runners be any different than anyone else?
The lack of reasoning and critical thinking skills truly amazes me.
Then the original poster is answering the argument that Kenyans don't do drugs because they are too nice, which I don't particularly remember anyone making.
If we could actually prove whether or not they were on drugs on or not, I'd bet the house, all the money in the bank, the cars, the kids, etc on them being clean (with save Masterkova and Szabo). I'd take you up on that one in a heartbeat.
Thats the words of somebody who actually knows a thing or two about athletics! Well played.
Mobile I didn t quite get what exactly you ment by Masterkova and Szabo....
I d like to hear an explanation.
Thanks
I meant to write that Masterkova and Szabo were the only ones from the OP's list that I genuinely wouldn't bet the farm on (in fact, I'd bet it the other way). Masterkova's husband was a Spanish cycling coach, and Szabo's husband got caught with oxygen boosting drugs at the French border and then Szabo more or less retired suddenly at the beginning of an Olympic year.
Ottey might be a bit uncertain to me, and I just don't know Arron very well at all (but have no reason to doubt her). I would call Arron's 10.73 (w/ 2.0 wind) the legit WR.
mobile9 wrote:
I meant to write that Masterkova and Szabo were the only ones from the OP's list that I genuinely wouldn't bet the farm on (in fact, I'd bet it the other way). Masterkova's husband was a Spanish cycling coach, and Szabo's husband got caught with oxygen boosting drugs at the French border and then Szabo more or less retired suddenly at the beginning of an Olympic year.
Ottey might be a bit uncertain to me, and I just don't know Arron very well at all (but have no reason to doubt her). I would call Arron's 10.73 (w/ 2.0 wind) the legit WR.
One of the posters made an outrageous statement that woman has ever ran the 1500m under 4 mins clean. After stating that Sonia O'Sullivan, Zola Budd, Carla Sacremento, Hayley Tullet, Gabriella Dorio, Anita Weyermann, Maryam Yusuf Jamal, Kutre Delecha, Hassiba Boulmerka have all achieved this feat, this particular person still says that all of them were likely to be dopers. I cant understand why such ridiculous sceptics watch the sport in the first place!
Then they should be subject to out of competition testing while they are training in Albuquerque.
mobile9 wrote:
If we could actually prove whether or not they were on drugs on or not, I'd bet the house, all the money in the bank, the cars, the kids, etc on them being clean (with save Masterkova and Szabo). I'd take you up on that one in a heartbeat.
I don't believe it to be a cynical viewpoint to suspect drug use in any athletic endeavor nowadays. In fact, to cling to some arbitrary moral standard in light of the history of our sport is a conscientious decision to believe in fairy tales.Suspected drug use has become akin to wind conditions, temperature, spikes, competition, rabbits and other variables that can impact a race. To me it has become part of the sport and unless there is a definitive test to define what is "natural" everyone has a right to suspect drug use when a great performance is thrown down. All that being said I still love watching a good race and when I do watch I am hopeful that it's a level playing field for the participants.This post really said it all:
Blaine Faulkner wrote:
If you can t beat them talk trash about them...—that’s more of the caseIt was more of the case in 1980, and the trash talk was probably deserved.
By the 1983 WC, the playing field was even.
04072511 wrote:
Well thats a very cynical viewpoint. Why bother watch the sport if you're going to be thinking like that. You are an example of somebody who brands everyone a cheat due to the moderately few people that do cheat. I couldnt disagree more with you and I'm certain most people on these boards feel the same. Believe it or not, not everybody is an assho1e with no morals. Some people ACTUALLY believe cheating is wrong and want to achieve greatness from natural means.
Because there's some magical no-fly zone for planes carrying WADA testers...?
With all this talk about FloJo being dirty....doesn't that infer that Bobby Kersee could be dirty as well? Remember he had a stable of great women back in the day....not so much lately. No one can accurately say certain athletes are dirty; conversely, no one can say they are 100% certain they are clean either. This is all IMHO.
They simply do not, get with the program buddy. Why do you think Paula Radcliffe is foregoing the UK warm weather training camp in South Africa? SA works just fine for everyone - except Ms Radcliffe. There's a few of them Moroccan fellas training there too and it ain't cause they like South Western food.
mobile9 wrote:
Because there's some magical no-fly zone for planes carrying WADA testers...?
Maybe she doesn't want her luggage stolen in Johannesburg.
The fact is, it doesn't matter. She is going to do things the way she wants to because she has shown fragility in the past and she has the money to do it.
Henry Rono trains in Albuquerque. So does Everlyn Lagat. And a slew of others. BFD. How about all those AmeriKenyans a short drive away in Santa Fe?
List all the people who frequented ABQ and got busted. The H's were a single, corrupt group, btw, and what you'll find is a handful of cheaters who liked the training environment, and possibly the proximity to get drugs from Mexico.