Cathal Lombard, former EPO guy returns with good result

dude, please revive this thread when cathal even gets close to those times, otherwise you are wasting perfectly good board spaace with your asinine arguments for why cathal is going to make this wonderful return...dude, he will not even scare 29:15 or even 14 flat again, i guarantee it and if he does i will come on here and post my own name and say that "ghost" is the greatest....i will not have to do that unless an act of God happens...or cathal gets back on the juice.

ghost wrote:

Cathal believes he can return to very respectable form in the 5000/10,000, and then move to the marathon. I think 14:00/29:00 and then....

Given your certainty that she will get back to those times I presume that you are one of those people who do not think it was the drugs that got him to 28.09 and 13.49.

Boll*x to that - he prob started them when he was a 30.00/14.30 runner and thats how he got to those times above.

ghost wrote:

Cathal believes he can return to very respectable form in the 5000/10,000, and then move to the marathon.

How the heck do you know all these personal details about him?

You said previously that with respect to his former employers you "checked their website and Cathal is no longer on their list of solicitors or employees."

If you really had the kind of personal insights into him that could only be obtained by talking to him directly, then why did you need to surf the web to find out his employment status? Sounds like something he likely would have mentioned in his conversation with you somewhere between his absolute remorse and where he stands in his current training regime and racing plans.

Are you just making it up as to what you think his current situation really is with respect to his training and what he might want to accomplish?

Whoever thinks EPO makes you win +70 seconds on a 5K knows very little regarding drug issues... which isnt a bad thing at the end of the day

It is 20 - 35 secs range.

juice wrote:

Whoever thinks EPO makes you win +70 seconds on a 5K knows very little regarding drug issues... which isnt a bad thing at the end of the day

It is 20 - 35 secs range.

everybody responds to the drugs slightly differently. He could be an outlier (responds extremely well). We also don't know how much he was taking.

It's impossible to give a set amount of time. Also, most people who get caught for drugs are the elite elite. So they are likely to get less time benefit out of it than someone who is a 14:30/30min guy.

Is it likely that all 70+ seconds were due to drugs? Not particularly, but how much so is impossible to tell. He probably got a huge mental boost out of taking the drugs too. My guess is, especially since we've seen his 24 high 5 miler, that the vast majority of the time drop was due to drugs.

I agree with you for most of your points, that is why I put a rather large fork of 15 secs as drugs have different results on different people.

You are perfectly right when saying elite athletes benefit from drugs in a lesser way as they are, in a way, naturally drugged with talent.But I maintain that unless youd run like 38 mins/10k or something you wouldnt gain 2'30 (or +70secs on a 5). Lombard was a 30 flat runner ( better for me) not a total donkey. Add to that that his previous PB was not done in the comfort of the perfect conditions of a Stanford meet.

I also do believe like you that he was on the juice when he ran 28'05/13'19 in 2003 but I think that most of the gain between 03 & 04 when he got his 10 K time down another 35secs was due to the fact he became a full time athlete, always on training camps... so it is reasonable to believe he could have got his PB on the 10 down by over half a minute if he went full-time while off the juice.

But you would tell me he was able to go full time because he got grants from cheating & even if this gain was not directly linked with the physiological benefit of EPO it was still a result from it & should be classed among the overall benefit of the Juice & you would be right in a way.

Depends on the way you view things I suppose...

I still believe he could have dipped slightly under 29 clean with Doonans training & being a full time athlete & all.

Nicely

PS: concerning the degree of EPO administration Lombard was on I dont think that is relevant like with Steroids as too much EPO can lead to heart failure & dead. Id say Lombard knew that.

agreed on the too much could increase the hematocrit too much and then goodbye. But, I guess the better way of saying it is how sophistacted was he in his administration of the drug.

goeeeee wrote:

agreed on the too much could increase the hematocrit too much and then goodbye. But, I guess the better way of saying it is how sophistacted was he in his administration of the drug.

As he did it on his own in such an amator way, id say probably not half as good as the group juicing monitored by professionals...

ghost wrote:

What about Chambers and others who took products - their treatment in no way matches that which is being doled out to Cathal.

.

That is an argument for Chambers to be treated more sternly, not for Lombard to be treated more leniently.

dude, you need to learn the meaning of SARCASM. there is no way in hell htat cathal is going to come anywhere near those times again, mark my words.

geordie111 wrote:

Given your certainty that she will get back to those times I presume that you are one of those people who do not think it was the drugs that got him to 28.09 and 13.49.

Boll*x to that - he prob started them when he was a 30.00/14.30 runner and thats how he got to those times above.

I knew a guy in France of Algerian descent who took EPO and improved from 32:00 to 29:04. He is still running now, but at a lower level, and no longer takes EPO. He now works as a barber in Marseille, and makes more money that way.

Ghost in Korea

c.moulton (www.gifle.go.kr) Apply now, good conditions.

ghost wrote:

I knew a guy in France of Algerian descent who took EPO and improved from 32:00 to 29:04. He is still running now, but at a lower level, and no longer takes EPO. He now works as a barber in Marseille, and makes more money that way.

Ghost in Korea

c.moulton (www.gifle.go.kr) Apply now, good conditions.

A close friend of mine runs 12:37 for 5000 and before he started using EPO and Repoxygen™ and HGH he could not even break---well, he was much slower. Much much slower!

If a drugged athlete gets caught saving a drowning child - is it a crime?

if he the r@pes the child I suppose it is...

Controlled tests amongst a group of 31-32min types showed EPO improved their times (10k) by 15-25secs on average. One would think it would be less than that with elite runners maybe 10-15 secs. I believe blood boosting produced about the same improvement. Blood boosting was not outlawed until more recent times and it was thought many elite runners of the 70s and 80s used it.

Post link/article for those tests please ?

I defo wont take your word for it otherwhise...

+ Im sure those test did not consider the fact you can train more & recover faster.

Im ready to bet that the "Guinea pigs" trained the same as before hence only benefiting from the red cell boost & not the gain due to the extra training EPO permits.

All athletes I can think off that got caught Improved at the very least by 20 secs on the 5K ( double for 10K) within the first year of EPO use.

Cathal Lombard would have done 27'45 off the Juice ? Nonsense.

Interesting. Any refs. to papers/reports?

Post link/article for those tests please ?

I defo wont take your word for it otherwhise...

+ Im sure those test did not consider the fact you can train more & recover faster.

Im ready to bet that the "Guinea pigs" trained the same as before hence only benefiting from the red cell boost & not the gain due to the extra training EPO permits.

All athletes I can think off that got caught Improved at the very least by 20 secs on the 5K ( double for 10K) within the first year of EPO use.

Cathal Lombard would have done 27'45 off the Juice ? Nonsense.

List of people and their progress?

Agree on your comment on Lombard.