Japanese training system in Fukuoka,

Thanks Jason for youre reply.

Also, would you recommend me doing alot of overdistance runs in the lead up and what do you think of the HADD system of training??

regards Reg

Regarding the vegies: don't touch them when you have your last evening meal before the marathon- you could up getting the shits on marathon day. And always have that last evening meal early; say around about 5 pm. Avoid fibre for breakfast on the day of the race.

Owain

Owain, maybe I did not make myself clear on this, but yes, stop the veggies about wednesday before the Sunday marathon. The veggies are for belly-filler while you are not eating a lot of carbs and calories during the depletion phase.

I have had some contact with Mr. Hadd in the past, and he is a good guy, and his training system is sound, however, it's best to experiment for yourself and design a system that works best for you.

Jason.

No marathon runner that you have observed has run over 30 km?

WTF?

I call BS. Or either that you are missing their weekly long run. If one's long run is 30k max every week, they will not be able to run the marathon come race day.

Think again Ghost.

Profile of average Japanese marathon runner:

Name: Hitoshi

Club: No club, unattached in Fukuoka

Age: 32

Best times: 10,000 track - 31:30, Half marathon - 1:09.58, Marathon - 2:29.50 (Beppu, 2006)

Height/weight: 1.72cm, 56 kilos

Job: Works as a kaishain (office worker) and does overtime every day, working from 8am to 10pm at night, except for occasional nights when early finish

Sleep: 6 hours per night

Food details: Eats meat 4 times a week. The rest is rice, fish, soup, vegetables, and cold tea. Eats sweet food (cake) once a week.

Shoes: Training shoe is `Nimbus` (Asics) weight 350-400gr,

Racing shoe - Asics Sutto Magic, weight 200gr

Typical training week:

Monday - (6am) 10km very slow 60``, night (10pm) 10km slow in 60``

Tuesday - Between 5-10km pace work at 3.30 pace per km

Wednesday - no running

Thursday - 20km time trial in 1:15

Friday - rest

Saturday - morning - 10km, afternoon - 20km

Sunday - 20km time pace run, in 1:14

I watched him run a 2km time trial at Ohori Park at 8pm a few days ago, and he ran the course in 6:40, wearing his racing flats. This was after about 1 hour of jogging.

On Fridays the High school Ekiden teams were running 20km and they covered the course in 68 minutes, with 2 guys finishing in that time, and the others coming in later, and some not completing the distance. They all start together running like clockwork, and they start off at around 3:35-3:40 per km, and then it gets progressively faster, until they are running the last 5km at around 3:20 pace or faster.

Last night the January edition of Japan running magazine came out, and they showed all the top University teams in Japan and the stats on each runner.

There are around 20 University teams of guys aged between 19-22, and they have a roster of about 20 per team, and the times are usually around 14:00-14:20/29:00-30:00, for most of the runners. There is more depth compared with U.S. division 1 teams, and they have a few foreigners.

The best foreigner I checked is Julius Gitahi from Kenya, who runs for Nihon University, and his best times listed are 13:24/27:46. They only list the times for 5000, 10,000 and half marathon. And the average half marathon time for all these guys is around 1:04-1:05, so it is very deep.

It is raining in Fukuoka now (December 22) and the Japanese ride their bicycles with an umbrella in the other hand. Interesting to watch. Even if there are just a few drops of drizzle, everyone brings out the umbrella.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Hitoshi told me he had no club because his times (31:30/69:50/2:29.50) are not fast enough to be in a club, like the Nishetetsu club.

He trains very ealy in the morning (6am) and late at night (around 10pm) because he does overtime every day. He usually eats dinner at 11pm! You have to feel sorry for this guy, and he looked thin and drawn.

This morning I saw one of the Nishitetsu guys (2:20 marathon) run a 10km in 34:00 wearing loads of clothes, and he started slowly, but built up his run, getting faster and faster. These guys are machines. Impressive. Another guy was doing 1k repeats on the road in 2*55-3:00, with just 60 secs rest.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Jason,

What do you know about Fukushi?

Today (December 23, 2007) they showed full coverage of the national high school Ekiden Championships. Each team has runners doing different distances from 10km and down to 3km. There are a few Kenyan runners also running for the High school teams. It is a huge event in Japan, and unique in the world. Nowhere else would they show hours and hours of High school runners.

I looked at the stats of all the teams, and they are basically filled with 16-18 year olds who have best times of 14:00-15:00 for 5000, with the average time around 14:30-14:40 for these young lads, but they are faster on the road, because their splits for the 10km section today ranged from 29:00 to 30:00 for a whole bunch of runners.

The winning team was Sendai Miyagi, who had a Kenyan 16 year old who ran a 29:00 10km leg, closely followed by a 17 year old Japanese, from the Nagano team.

1. Sendai Miyagi, 2:03.55

2. Sakujosei, Nagano, 2:03.55

3. Nishiwa Kiko, Hyogo, 2:05.29

Also: 6th Kyushu Kumamoto 2:06

18th Kyushu, Fukuoka 2:08.28

I looked at the magazine stats, and most of the runners are about 1:63 centimetres, and around 50 kilos in weight.

This afternoon, I travelled back to Oho area, outside Fukuoka, to do a photo shoot with young phenomenon, Yuuki Fukuda (age 13) - born 30 July 1994, and best times of track 4:27 for 1500 (at age 12!), and 9:42 for 3000 at age 12 also! This year he is aiming for close to 9 minutes for 3000. He has also run 15.43 for a 4.92 road relay.

He runs almost every day, and a lot of the running is in the form of what the coach calls `build ups` where the pace gets faster and faster. I saw him run one of these runs today at the Elementary school, where there is a 700m cross country course which he repeated about 10 times, with 25:00 minutes time, running faster and faster each lap. Yuuki also plays soccer for his school on other days, but will have to make a choice soon. He started running at age 7.

This morning there were Ekiden races in Ohori Park for all the baseball teams in Fukuoka, age groups 10-12, and I timed a lot of these guys in around 7:30 for 2km at age 11-12, which is very impressive. All the baseball teams seem to run loads of endurance in the buildup season.

The young runners don`t eat junk food after the races - instead they eat rice balls wrapped in seaweed! This is healthy, nutritious, and low in fat and calories. We can learn something from these eating habits.

Last night, we went to the Colombian Salsa Restaurant and Bar and it was party night - phenomenal night, with the Colombian guys leading the moves on the dance floors, with all the babes right behind following suit - impressive to watch. Only costs 500 yen to enter, but beer a little pricey at 500 yen, but the meals are very reasonable at 700-800 yen. Phone 092-722-1650, or 092-762-4104 at Cafe Bar Dos, and Sancho Panza - mention ghost and you will get a disount if you bring in more than 3 runners. Great deal!

Ghost in Fukuoka

Last night (December 23, 2007) the top item on the National Sports news (60 minutes program) was the coverage of the national high school Ekiden finals road relays in Kyoto.

No other country in the world gives such extensive coverage to road running as Japan does. The Ekiden races and marathons are covered in full, from gun to tape, with interviews and stats galore.

Today (Monday December 24, 2007) was a National Holiday in Japan, and there was full t.v. coverage of the womens Universities Ekiden final road relays. This coverage lasted about 2 hours for a race that took around 1.30 to complete.

The stats given about each runner was phenomenal, and our countries do not give such stats.

There are tons of female University runners, who run the Ekiden, and the depth is impressive, with hundreds of ladies running between 15:30-16:20 for 5000, and you know this because each runner has her stats advertised on the screen while she is running!

The winning team was a University starting with the sound "R" - sorry, I didn`t catch the whole details, because I had lesson preparation for school tomorrow.

There is a lot of emotion from the teams when they finish, with tears from the runners and the coaches. Very emotional to watch.

Today I observed a good 16 year old at Ohori Park run a good time trial for 16km in a total time of around 56 minutes (sorry, I missed the end time) - but I got his splits from the coach assistant and they were as follows:

2km - 7:43, 4km - 7:32, 6km - 7:17, 8km - 7:04, 10km - 6:58, 12km - 6:58, 14km - 6:59, 16km - 6:27.

He looked great, and is very light on his feet - probably about 5.7 (quite tall for his age) but skinny at around 100 pounds - you could not even hear his feet make contact with the ground. After the 16km time trial, he did strides and sprints, and then stretching, walking, etc....the session went on and on for about 2 hours. He startd with a bunch of team mates, but they did not complete the distance, as most of them are middle distance guys with times of around 4:00 for 1500.

It is crazy in downtown Fukuoka today (Tenjin area) - with all the Christmas shoppers, even though Japan does not officially celebrate Christmas, but the Japanese love to give presents and have parties around this time of year.

Tomorrow, is back to school, normal day! (December 25)

Ghost in Fukuoka

This morning December 25 (normal day in Japan), on my way to school, I passed the park, and timed the High school guys (16-17 years) on their 12km run, they were running the 2km loop in 6:50 time, and this was before the end. These guys are running good pace every day. It never stops.

I am very impressed by these guys.

Ghost in Fukuoka

why is Mayeroff such a big puss when someone else makes a push to take over his Asian running circuit insider info? i am amazed he ever had any success as a runner given his catty temperament and the ease at which he tweaks over absolutely meaningless issues. why some of you embrace him as some kind of hero is beyond me, but i guess i just never understood sorority-type-mentalities.

Fukuoka, December 25, 2007.

The Japanese school students are on vacation now for 2 weeks (they also get two weeks in the spring, and 6 weeks in summer), so the Ohori Park and the 2km circuit (with every 100m marked on the ground!) is in full use at the moment with all the High school Ekiden teams.

All these High school teams seem to do the same kind of training,with the bulk of the work coming in the form of 10-14-16km progressive runs, at good speeds of around 3:30 per km average - these runners run like machines in groups of around 5-8 runners per group, sometimes more.　They all start together, and the aim is for everyone to run together this makes for great team work and spirit.

Unlike North American and European runners who talk a lot when running, these characters do no talking when running, and run in single file with one runner after the other....it is impressive to watch.

Most of the runners are around 1.60 tall and weigh around 45-50 kilos. Watching from a few meters back on the bike, when following, one can understand why Japanese runners develop such depth in road running and marathons. All those timed runs over 12-20km really pay off in the long run, and teach pace down to an art form.

Unlike Western runners who sweat profusely when engaged in activity of this kind, these characters will just towel off after the run, change clothes and then dress back into their usual civilian clothes which is usually a dark blazer and black pants. The preferred mode of transport in Fukuoka is the bicycle, and all the runners use bikes to get around. The bikes are the heavy clunky kind with baskets attached to the front.

The runners just drink some water or sports drink after their exertions, and avoid junk food, which enables them, like the Kenyans (who also avoid sweets) to maintain their extremely lithe builds.

Basically in Ohori the fast runners, of which there are many, are composed of the High school Ekiden teams, and the Nishitetsu professional team.

The Nishitetsu professional team, is in the C League in Japan, with their runners made up of guys who are typically around 29:00 and 1:03-1:04 for the 10,000/half marathon.

There are more than 100 professional company teams in Japan, with around 30 of those teams in the Tokyo area. In Kyushu, where Fukuoka is located, there are around 10 teams.

In July when the heat and humidity in Fukuoka make distance training a painful experience, many of the runners go to train in Sapporo, located in Northern Japan, with much cooler temperatures.

In winter Fukuoka is perfect for training, with about 10 - 14 degrees average daytime temps, and the opportunity to always do some pace work. There are also plenty of hills nearby, but not sure if the runners use them, as the coaches in Japan prefer to watch their athletes all the time, on 2km circuits where they can monitor their running, with more exact precision, including the easy running, which seems strange - but everything is controlled and tabulated here -　the notebooks they keep are a statisticians dream, and would fetch big money if put on auction.

Ghost in Fukuoka, Japan

This morning (December 26th) on my way to school at 8:30am I pass by the 2km circuit in Ohori Park, and once again I spot a group of High school Ekiden guys (age 16-17) running a 12km morning run at a good pace. I timed them for 4km towards the end of their run, and they were hitting around 3:20km pace for each km - very impressive. At the end, there was only one guy left maintaining that pace 3:15-3:20 per km, and the other guys would drop, and then take turns pacing him for the remainder of the run.

These guys are machines, and seem to run pace day after day.....and I almost never seem to see them run slow, contrary to what I was led to believe before coming to Japan.

There is another character at Ohori, about 20 years old - he runs 64:00 mins for the Half marathon, and every day I see him pounding out the kilos in around 3:20-3:30 wearing full rain suit and two pants! You try to speak to them, but they are very focused and don`t get distracted by foreigners.

The other joggers and walkers in the park appear to be completely oblivious to these human machines who churn out 3:20km pace ad infinitum. No one even glances their way when they are running. It takes a foreigner and the coaches to be aware of the phenomenal quality in this haven for distance runners.

Ghost in Fukuoka, 26/12/07

Fukuoka, December 27, 2007

Yesterday, I saw an impressive session at Ohori Park, Fukuoka, at 4.30pm.

Athlete: `So` (the son of the famous Takeshi So who is now a coach in another town in Kyushu)

Age: 25 years

Best times: 5000/14:16, 10,000/30:08, half marathon 66:35

Todays session: 10 times 2km on the road circuit of Ohori Park, on a rubberized surface surrounding the lake

Rest between intervals: 90 seconds

Time objective: between 6:00-6:15 per 2km

I watched `So` run, and it was impressive to see the effort he put into his training. He is tall (1.82) and thin (62 kilos), and his style is not the best, because, unlike many of the shorter athletes, he has a bit of uppper body movement which cuts into his efficiency.

His times: `So` ran the first 2km interval in 6:03, but then for the next one he hit 6:11, and then the other intervals averaged around 6:14-6:16, so the coach was not quite so happy, as he was one second over on some of the runs. There was a bit of wind around the lake.

Pain tolerance of Japanese: Phenomenal tolerance for discomfort. I saw `So` throw up his lunch (it looked like some `miso soup` and noodles) after the fifth repetition, and then after every next run he was bent over and dry heaving and groaning like a wounded beast - but he kept on, and finished the session, with clear pain etched on his face. The coach told me that this was not `fast running` but `So` looked like he was working very hard to run that pace. I followed on the bike, about 25 meters back, and his 1km split was always around 3:07-3:08, so he ran the same pace all the way through. Of course he was wearing racing flats, as all the Japanese do when they do these sessions on the road or rubber surfaces.

Comment: I have known many British and French runners with similar times to `So` and none of them, to my knowledge, would ever do 20km of intervals in one session! In fact people like Mike Fuller (14:17/29:22) did about half the training or less compared with this character, and ran just as fast.

This leads one to think, that some of the Japanese may be overtraining for their level.

The athlete in question - `So` - appears to be limited in speed, judging from his style, and I would venture to say that were he to line up for a 1500m race, he would have trouble going faster than 3:55-3:57 - he obviously does not have the talent of his more illustrious Dad - Takeshi - who ran 2:09, and many times sub. 2:12 in the late 70`s and early 80`s. But one has to admire the tenacity of `So` for doing a session like this which is very hard.

Complication: There are so many other runners and joggers at that peak time in Ohori Park, that it is like running in a traffic jam, and `So` had to weave in and out of human traffic a few times.

Communication between athlete and coach: After the session, the coach said a few words, and then `So` merely said `Kaerimaska` (I`m going home) and put on his jogging suit and jogged down to `Nishijin` where the club house and athletes` dorm is located.

Conclusion: I doubt that runners in the UK and the U.S with similar times (14:16/30:08) are doing as many quality miles in intervals as these Japanese characters. 20km of intervals seems a high price to pay to run around those times. But this is the Japanese system, and who am I to criticize. `So` is being moulded into a marathon runner, but looking at him run, I think it will be difficult for him to run faster than 2:13, which is still the B League level in Japan.

Ghost in Korea

I forgot to point out, that the start and the finish of each interval was extended about 100m to make up for the slight shortness of distance for the lake (1900m approx), so he ran the exact distance.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Cheers Ghost.

When are you back in Korea?

Owain

I return to Korea, January 1, 2008. Speak with you then, Owain.

I will be back in Japan in the Spring, after I finish my contract in Korea. I need to make the most of this opportunity, as my next teaching position looks like it will be in Saudi Arabia or Oman next September. This is one of the few chances I have to look at Japanese runners and their training.

Ghost in Fukuoka, Japan

December 27, 2007. Ohori Park, Fukuoka, 2km circuit around lake.

This afternoon, right after school I headed for the circuit, and witnessed a very impressive 5000m time trial run by about 10 Nishitetsu runners, under close supervision by around 3 coaches, and 3 senior Nishitetsu board of directors admin. guys. Perfect weather - cool (10 degrees centigrade) and windless.

The guys warmed up for about 30 minutes and then did a bunch of fast strides and fastish sprints, before taking off their sweats.

I followed on a bike, about 25 meters back, and the guys were really motoring......this is really in contrast to all the joggers in the park, so it looks like the guys are doing an everlasting sprint in comparison.

They went through 3000 in around 8:40, and the group finished between 14:40 for the top 3, and then scattered in single file up to 15:04 for the last guy in the group.

It is not easy running a time trial around a loop circuit in a park in Japan because there are so many joggers, walkers and bikers using the same circuit. This makes the pro. runners experts in weaving in and out of human traffic, but unlike runners from the west who become aggressive when there are joggers in their way (shouting `track!`) - these Japanese runners don`t say anything at all to all the joggers, and just weave in and out, losing precious seconds, no doubt, but they are used to this, and contend with these conditions as a matter of course.

The guy I see every day running around the ciruit at 3:20-3:30 pace (no matter what distance, from 10km-20km) was at the front of the group today, and finished in around 14:41. His name is Fukusako, and his best times are 29:50/10,000 and 65:00 half marathon. Fukusako reminds me of Mr Robot guy, because he never displays any emotion when running, whether his normal training which I witness every day, or time trials like this. He is also always the first one to put his sweats back on and then head for home around 2-3km away in the same area.

In Japan, there is none of the chatting and fooling around between runners and coaches that you see in Western countries. It looks like a serious business here, and they (the athletes) don`t seem to derive much enjoyment from the activity, judging from their somber expressions. Many of these pro runners wear sunglasses on their easy runs, even in overcast weather and at dusk, and run through the park in anonymous fashion, ignored by all, save for this writer who is intrigued and captivated by their dedication to task.

And today was no different, with Fukusako (29:50/65:00) the first guy to put his sweats back on after his majestic time trial, and head for home, with that rainsuit he likes to wear at all times, even in mild weather.

There was another runner in the group, who has 13:45/28:40 credentials, but he dropped out before the end of the session. He may have an injury at this time.

These guys are serious runners, and it is difficult to speak with them, because they are shy/diffident with foreigners, and although I know enough Japanese to ask basic questions and stats, you can see that they are not very comfortable talking with foreigners, so most of the info I obtain is from the coaches, who are, thankfully, more forthcoming.

Ghost in Fukuoka

Mr. Ghost,

I have a few questions, if you're inclined:

1. From your observations, is there an active recreational racing scene in Japan. That is, men running 35 to 40 minute 10K. (And women with respective performance). What I think of as typical "Age Group Competitors". If so, do you have an impression of the common runner's training in comparison to American or European standards?

2. Do professional Japanese teams wear matching uniforms during training? Does each team have a specific shoe company sponsorship? Are there instances of multiple sponsors for a single team?

3. Do you observe many shoe brands other than Asics and Mizuno? (Nike, NB, Adidas, Saucony...)

4. Is there much Japanese interest and media coverage of International Marathons that typically don't have Japanese elites? (London, New York, Chicago etc...)

5. Do corporate team runners ever change teams?

6. Is Tomoe Abe's 100km record at Lake Saroma highly regarded in Japan or are ultra distance races minimalized?

Thank you.