Running Times Article - "How Much Mileage"

Exactly. Most top runners run very close to their top potential on little training. Anders Szalkai was a junior 1500 m runner and after a holiday in France he decided to run Paris Marathon just for fun and he ran 2,30. After many years of high mileage his PR was 2,12. I bet Kenny B could run 27,30 off laughably little training.

If the benefit of higher mileage is improved 'economy', how do you measure 'economy'?

i'm a young guy who didn't see the running in the 70s but i would tend to agreefor most sports isn't the trend to usually get better with timeit is amazing that average race times have undeniably gotten slower in the US from where they were 30 years ago - in my club races, I look at results from 30 years ago and the field was much, much more deep. How is that possible?Maybe it is just anecdotal evidence but it appears to me that the big difference is mileage... most (not all) of today's runners simply don't put in the mileage

not that it matters... wrote:

[quote]JimG wrote:

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. This is exactly the kind of thought that got us into the mess we were in a few years ago... Remember we only sent ONE marathoner to the Olympics? "Back in the day" even casual runners ran well in excess of 70mpw. Local road races were won in sub 31:00 for 10K.... We had loads of runners sub 2:30 in the marathon and they did NOT consider themselves serious runners. They KNEW that substituting "strength, plyo, etc." for an additional 20 miles per week is completely horse manure. WHAT A JOKE, JimG. This is classic, "less is more" thinking that put US distance running in the crapper back in the 90s, early 00s.

One I bet you never made an Olympic Team like Benji either. He ran well when it counted.

Second I read the Olympic Trials study, I found it interesting and merely a presentation of data. I think the conclusion that no specific conclusions about how US Marathoners train is accurate. I have made the trials w/o running over 100 a week and I made while running in the 120+ plus range. I found that I performed better 90-100 with a good vo2 max based workout once a week (10x100 at 255 with 1 min rest or 5 x 1600 in 440 with 3 mins rest) and a tough long run where I got down to sub 5 for the last two or three miles, then I did running 120 and dragging my ass out of bed everyday feeling wasted.

The mileage debate isn't worth it everyone is different and there is no one size fits all plan. Yes, the 1990's less is more approach was bs for american performances, and I did not think the article was recomending that real runners go out and train and race a marathon on 70 a week.

"than"

dfddff wrote:

from what i take, most will reach CLOSE to their potential off 70 per week. id say if you're going to be an elite runner, say 2:10 in the marathon, you could run under 2:20 off 70 a week which would be CLOSE to your potential in the grand scheme. id also go as far to say as someone like ritz could run 13:30 off 70 per week, while his max is 13:15. In the grand scheme, its close to the full potential. Basically, if you aren't pretty damn good off 70 per week, you aren't going to become great off higher mileage.

Mediocrity all the way!

PS- and tell that to Ron Daws

Totally unsurprising that Karp would reach a weak conclusion when he selects on the dependent variable -- getting to the Olympic Trials.

To separate what worked from what didn't it would be far more useful to survey a group of people who tried to qualify and didn't.

A 12 percent improvement in your PR seems like an improvement worth putting in the miles for ...

Now, if you don't enjoy putting in the miles, don't do 'em.

But no one should clutter up the airwaves and internet telling other people not to do something they enjoy in the pursuit of getting better.

I agree flightless; these are exactly the type long-term of studies I suggested Richard Gibbens of powerrunning.com try to do after he was crowing about the FIRST (Furhman) "studies" a couple years ago. A multi-year study would be very hard, but maybe a one year or 9 month study on college campuses--sign up a bunch of phys-ed students to be guinea pigs.

luv2run wrote:

JSPP, 2(1), March 2007, Copyright © 2007

Training Characteristics of Qualifiers for the U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials

Conclusions: Because many of these athletes train alone and without a coach, further research is warranted on the reasons that these athletes train the way they do.

Maybe because they know how to read?

How long did these people say they put in the average mileage they reported? Was it even the same for all respondents? Some who say "I ran 90 miles a week" might have been talking about the past year; some who said "I did 120 a week" might have reported only their true build-up for the Trials or their qualifying race (3-5 months).

That's not his mouth that's watering, it's the twat in the middle of his face getting wet. Karp is a condescending, chauvinistic nitwit with an adolescent's understanding of the sport.

Isn't a good reason for running more mileage simply that you like to?

flightless wrote:

A 12 percent improvement in your PR seems like an improvement worth putting in the miles for ...

Now, if you don't enjoy putting in the miles, don't do 'em.

But no one should clutter up the airwaves and internet telling other people not to do something they enjoy in the pursuit of getting better.

You completely missed the point here, son!

What point was that, mother?

Never lost to Benji wrote:

Durden also was a very erratic performer, who ran many more crap marathons than good ones. Do you think there's a correlation? I do.

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jason pierce wrote:

Kenny Moore as well.

Kenny Moore ran under 100 mpw and finished 4th in the 1972 Olympic marathon? Really? Are you sure about that? I thought he ran 30 mile long runs. Seems a bit odd that the other 6 days would be less than 12 miles.

You'd better believe that Moore ran over 100 mpw, starting in collete. Bowerman trained him in the Lydiard mold.

I thought Moore was known for his 10 day cycles where he would do three hard days consisting of a 30 mile long run, intervals, and fartlek, with the other days in between being 3 mile jogs in the morning and evening. Who knows for sure though.