I've made this point before, but I'll do it again.
At the university I work for, we have approximately 4000 international students. Approximately 3985 of them pay the full freight of $45,000 to the university every year.
The university uses that money to run the school and, in part, to make available more money for financial aid for US citizens.
International students pay in way more money to our university than they take out.
Because anybody can go get a bunch of Irish, South African, and Kenyans and win. Thats why I dont respect ARK, just foreign talent.
Poor Wetmore wrote:
I mentioned this to our coach and he kind of shook his head and chuckled, "the rich get richer". It's not like he stuck around at Seton Hall or went over to Rutgers and built a national power there, he went out to Eugene and when he hit roadblocks there headed to Boulder to seek out an easier situation, to set up shop in a place that naturally attracts great engine components.
Yeah, that's why they're able to attract major basketball and football talent, eh? Because it's Boulder. CU underachieved, well, no, they basically sucked before Wetmore came on board.
Ward Churchill Lied wrote:
Wetmore is proud to use scholarships on American runners? What the hell is wrong with that, seriously?
Now that's what I'm talking about. Amen brother.
perspective wrote:
I've made this point before, but I'll do it again.
At the university I work for, we have approximately 4000 international students. Approximately 3985 of them pay the full freight of $45,000 to the university every year.
The university uses that money to run the school and, in part, to make available more money for financial aid for US citizens.
International students pay in way more money to our university than they take out.
And I'm glad to hear it.
What does basketball or football have to do with this? Who doesn't know that Boulder is a distance running mecca? I never said or implied that Wetmore isn't a good coach, but what he's accomplished has as much to do with how well Boulder sells itself to distance runners as it has to do with what Wetmore does with them once they get there. He couldn't have talked Goucher, Torres, or Ritz into going to Seton Hall, I guarantee you that and I also guarantee that he realizes that and that's why he left for Eugene and then Boulder.
Poor Wetmore wrote:
What does basketball or football have to do with this? Who doesn't know that Boulder is a distance running mecca? I never said or implied that Wetmore isn't a good coach, but what he's accomplished has as much to do with how well Boulder sells itself to distance runners as it has to do with what Wetmore does with them once they get there. He couldn't have talked Goucher, Torres, or Ritz into going to Seton Hall, I guarantee you that and I also guarantee that he realizes that and that's why he left for Eugene and then Boulder.
I've got news for you. Eugene is a distance running mecca too. Always has been. CU's team was pretty horrible, considering that Boulder was known for distance running, for the decade prior to Wetmore's arrival. Boulder is a beautiful locale, but attracting talent isn't always a slam dunk.
Then why doesn't "anybody" else go do it? The whole time that UARK was dominating the scene in the 80s and 90s any other coach was permitted by the NCAA to do exactly the same. UARK's successes have much more to do with how McDonnell prepared that talent to perform than they do with the fact that much (but not all) of the talent wasn't from the US.
As a high school kid in the mid-80s, I remember how cool it was that Dave Murray's Arizona squad finished 2nd at NCAA XC nationals with an all-American team. It's the reason I ultimately went there.
Ward Churchill Lied wrote:
I've got news for you. Eugene is a distance running mecca too. Always has been. CU's team was pretty horrible, considering that Boulder was known for distance running, for the decade prior to Wetmore's arrival. Boulder is a beautiful locale, but attracting talent isn't always a slam dunk.
Um, I sorta knew that. Oh yeah, that's exactly what I implied as Wetmore's reason for going there from NJ. I never said nor implied that attracting talent is a slam dunk anywhere, just that it's easier when your office is set up in Boulder or Eugene rather than in Jersey. I also never implied that Wetmore wasn't a step up from the previous coaching regime.
I think a lot of them do take the easy route of like ark. You can look across the board and see X school that is primarily foreign talent.
I just dont see where winning with nothing but foreigners is any thing to be proud of.
If thats true then the US should just convince a few more Kenyans to switch citizenship and we'll suddenly be a distance power again.
If we did that do you think we'd be respected as a top producer of distance talent? I dont think so.
Wetmore detester wrote:
Here is a link to the original interview.
http://www.flocasts.com/flotrack/speakers.php?sid=1&f=32I would be really surprised if Dan Edwards doesn't get any sort of financial aid.
no whining!
Just facts
He likes americans.
Its more fun for him.
He believes in them.
jizzmo2003 wrote:
I think a lot of them do take the easy route of like ark. You can look across the board and see X school that is primarily foreign talent.
I just dont see where winning with nothing but foreigners is any thing to be proud of.
If thats true then the US should just convince a few more Kenyans to switch citizenship and we'll suddenly be a distance power again.
If we did that do you think we'd be respected as a top producer of distance talent? I dont think so.
Yes, this would be about as authentic as sending our best 6'8" and above basketball players to Peru to represent that country in the Olympics and medal.
When has McDonnell ever won with 5 foreign scorers? How about 4 of 5? When in the past 20 years has anyone? Who cares if the US is "respected as a top producer of distance talent"? You and the rest of your merry band of dunces don't seem to respect Kenya or Ethiopia as such, you just point the "doper" finger at them endlessly.
jizzmo2003 wrote:
Because anybody can go get a bunch of Irish, South African, and Kenyans and win. Thats why I dont respect ARK, just foreign talent.
By making this sort of statement you are belittling the accomplishments of both the foreign talent and the American runners. They work just as hard as any of our athletes. An athletic scholarship is essentially a professional sports contract. Coaches are and should be entitled to spend them on whoever they want. By saying that anybody can get a bunch of foreign guys and win, you are saying that Americans are inherently inferior runners and that they should expect to lose. Should it be illegal to participate in sports outside your home country?
watch it again wrote:
Wetmore detester wrote:Here is a link to the original interview.
http://www.flocasts.com/flotrack/speakers.php?sid=1&f=32I would be really surprised if Dan Edwards doesn't get any sort of financial aid.
no whining!
Just facts
He likes americans.
Its more fun for him.
He believes in them.
To those defending Wetmore, you cannot deny the fact that he talks himself up more than any other coach recently. When they win nationals, its not because they have talent, according to him its because they are "blue collar." I get that they worked hard and earned the national championship, no one is denying that, but what upsets most people seems to be the fact that Wetmore acts like he has a bunch of scrubs that he whipped into shape. He plays them up to be the underdog against any other team with talent or foreigners, when his top 5 in recent years consists of entirely blue-chip runners coming out of high school. More power to him to have success with only americans, just quit acting like your better than everyone else because of it.
The thing with foreign athletes is that they do not follow the same rules as the American ones. First off how old are some of the Kenyans?
Some are 28-32
Second, you are telling me that they never accepted money for their athletic abilities.
If you are a coach that gets foreign talent and they get better after they come to the states that is one thing. There are a ton of coaches that "buy their talent and fly them over" to win a indoor conf title or make it to xc nationals. Most of the time those athletes get slower and I have no respect for those coaches.
Amen to Mark Wetmore for having the balls to say what he believes.
wetmorefann2008 wrote:
The thing with foreign athletes is that they do not follow the same rules as the American ones. First off how old are some of the Kenyans?
Some are 28-32
Second, you are telling me that they never accepted money for their athletic abilities.
If you are a coach that gets foreign talent and they get better after they come to the states that is one thing. There are a ton of coaches that "buy their talent and fly them over" to win a indoor conf title or make it to xc nationals. Most of the time those athletes get slower and I have no respect for those coaches.
Jesus, you're a simpleton.
wetmorefann2008 wrote:
The thing with foreign athletes is that they do not follow the same rules as the American ones. First off how old are some of the Kenyans?
Some are 28-32
Second, you are telling me that they never accepted money for their athletic abilities.
If you are a coach that gets foreign talent and they get better after they come to the states that is one thing. There are a ton of coaches that "buy their talent and fly them over" to win a indoor conf title or make it to xc nationals. Most of the time those athletes get slower and I have no respect for those coaches.
Amen to Mark Wetmore for having the balls to say what he believes.
I don't know what division you are competing in, but the NCAA D1 age limit is 24. This may be true in the lower divisions, but there are no thirty year olds running for the big name schools.
He most definitely is anti foreign. It has nothing to do with using American tax dollars. He would not waste his breath if that was what it was about.