York Shocker: Newton out as XC coach at York!!!!!!

wow 2:24:50 did he really?

Doesn't make it more impressive that they are so good with a small amount of major talent?

Nickles wrote:

Doesn't make it more impressive that they are so good with a small amount of major talent?

no. they're a huge school - 2,400+ kids.

and major talent isn't the question on the h.s. level, it's a figure of numbers. most good h.s. TEAMS are good not because they have a 4:10 runner every year, but because they get 5 guys to run 4:25 every year. if you have 5 4:25/9:30 guys, you'll win 99% of your meets, no problem.

this isn't to take anything away from york. kudos for newton for being able to get 100 kids out for the team each year which affords him the luxury of seeing where things shake out. and kudos to the kids too for putting in all the mileage.

but talent on the h.s. TEAM level means less than it does on other levels. you just need lots of kids who are willing to put in the time and effort. that's where newton's genius comes in - getting all those kids to buy into the program.

Roche, an Iowa guy as well. PR's--8:34 3K, 14:47 5K, 30:56 10K. VERY respectable times, but nowhere near the Glenbard South Iowa guys, Vandenend and MacTaggart.

Bakken--can hardly claim him as a York guy. He came into the program having already run ridiculously fast times.

Cioni--Princeton--3:53 1500m, 4:11 mile, 8:39 3K, 31:21. Once again, VERY respectable times, but not approaching the times of the aforementioned teams.

Lucchessi--Illinois. 30:58 10K; 14:48 5K; All-Regional one year in XC

Palumbo--Illinois. Times not better than Lucchesi's.

Dettmans--one ran unattached and was 35 seconds behind other U of O Freshman Mercado. Dettman ran 24:40.

Either way, this is apples and oranges. The times do not lie.

Bakken's PR's from his career before York 1:56.4 in 800 and 4:15 in the 1500m (from the book Training Profiles) and his York PR's 1:51.9, 4:09(1600) and 8:57(3200).

I wouldnt call those time ridiculously fast, he improved and learned a hell of alot from his time at York.

But again we are getting away from the point. Glenbard South has produced some very good guys but 2 brothers and a few others (who have run great times) really pales in comparison to the volumes of York guys who are succeeding in the college ranks. Isnt there a guy in Indiana's top 5 too? Fruin?

You have no clue what you are talking about. It is a summer running program, it is completely voluntary and you go if you want. My kids ran it for 4 years straight. They were dedicated, so they rarely missed time, but we did vacation during the summer every year. And there was no real cost. I think that we paid about $50 per kid for the program.

Akita is amazing- he was never a top 7 runner during his time at York but he blossomed at Elmhurst, where he is now the head coach. My son ran Chicago in 2.35; Jim was 2.24 and around 86th overall.

Right now, Dave Montgomery has run well for Grinnell in his first collegiate year, with a best 8k time of about 26 min so far. Others have listed other York runners- Sage, Cioni, Hobbs, Stasiulis, Lucchesi, Dave Walters, Bakken, Roche, Palumbo, McNamara, Dettmers, Akita and a bunch of others, including mine at Grinnell and Carleton.

But we are OT. Newton gets a lot of kids to come out because he actually works at it, both by his tradition and by actually inviting each new freshman personally. Last season he had 5 kids under 9.30 and under 4.20; it seems that each year he just works them and a few unexpectedly rise above. He will lose 4 or 5 of his top 7 this year, and I am sure there will be others to pick up the slack.

I don't see much to be gained by trying to compare York and Meade- they are both great and both have sent good runners out there.

greenliner

York's success speaks for it self, and the success has all to do with hard training.

Once they leave they are done, except for Sage all the people you have mentioned have done NOTHING note worthy after college. So just admit the fact that 2:25 to 2:35, 31-32min min for 10k, and being All-Conference d3 are non exisistent after the high school level (unless your female).

[quote]Bonderman wrote:

[kudos for newton for being able to get 100 kids out for the team each year which affords him the luxury of seeing where things shake out. and kudos to the kids too for putting in all the mileage.

York and Joe Newton reminds me of a coach at Shawnee Mission South in Kansas City, named Verlyn Schmidt...from the late 60s to the mid 80s he had top talent and well as double the amount of kids out for X-C that most other schools did. A current day York or Schmidt is Van Rose at Shawnee Mission Northwest. They just won the large school X-C state title for the 13th year in a row! Nobody in KC has come close to that record.

greenliner wrote:

You have no clue what you are talking about. It is a summer running program, it is completely voluntary and you go if you want. My kids ran it for 4 years straight. They were dedicated, so they rarely missed time, but we did vacation during the summer every year. And there was no real cost. I think that we paid about $50 per kid for the program.

Apparently your kid did not run varsity, otherwise you would not have been granted permission to take a family vacation unless you left your runner behind.

Master Manipulators wrote:

Apparently your kid did not run varsity, otherwise you would not have been granted permission to take a family vacation unless you left your runner behind.

If you're talking about Toga one of my teammates is good friends with one of the Toga girls who went on a cruise to Bermuda or somewhere for like a week in July and then her family went to visit relatives in the midwest later in the same summer and the Kranicks were fine with it. I think she also went to a non running related camp and missed another week but maybe that was one of her friends and not her. And yeah she's running varsity. Perhaps not everything you read on dyestat about Saratoga is true. How stupid can people be to just believe everything as gospel truth?

Actually, greenliner's kids ran for York (AKA the Long Green Line). I do agree with you, though - 90% of the stuff posted about Saratoga and especially the Kranicks is just BS from people jealous of their success.

My kids ran in the varsity from the time they were sophomores, and they were the team co-captains their senior year, so again, even though you have no direct experience of the program you apparently know more than I do. We are talking about the summer running program, not when season is in session.

bigboy- depends on how you define noteworthy. Does York have Olympians? Nope. Does it have kids who keep running and enjoy the sport? In droves. A lot of them are coaching, like Akita, my kids, some of the local west suburban coaches, and some college coaches, like at Loras. Who really cares? What really is your point? York isn't much different than anywhere else, yet this is the school you take to task for not putting out tons of Olympians in the last few years? But, y'know, Hobbs was Big 10 champ, and Jim Costello was AA in throws and Kyle Erikson same in the 400mih, and Sage was champ, and so on, so they all did fine and they kept running. I guess if you run 2.35 you should just quit running because you aren't running noteworthy, using that kind of thinking. Only York ever gets this kind of opprobrium; must be the success.

The post that you originally replied to is referring to the Saratoga program, not the York program. I would have to believe that if your kids went there, you would think much differently about this whole situation.

Just saw that; my bad.

I don't know the Kraniks. I know they've been highly succesful, and also that they have had top runners quit. That does worry me. I've not seen that happen at York, nor at Mead or other top programs. I have, of course, seen runners quit their local schools to transfer to Smoky Hills, though. :-)

The 4:15 was for the mile, not the 1500m. He had also run 2:00 in the 800m as a high school freshman in Norway, and 2:06 as a 14 year-old. Not too bad pre-York times. Go to Marius Bakken online if you need confirmation.

Vandenend and Mactaggart are NOT brothers. They have run NCAA All-American times and U.S. Olympic Trials qualifying times, as have several of the boys from Naperville North. These accomplishments do not "pale in comparison". These marks and Sage's are really the ones that decide the issue here; not that the others are insignificant, but the topic was developing after high school. How many of the York boys have significantly improved upon their high school PR's in the aforementioned examples? The GBS and NN boys have.

Times don't lie. They are not opinions, just facts.

Jabs

what school did you go to, GBS or NN?

KC old school wrote:

[quote]Bonderman wrote:

[kudos for newton for being able to get 100 kids out for the team each year which affords him the luxury of seeing where things shake out. and kudos to the kids too for putting in all the mileage.

York and Joe Newton reminds me of a coach at Shawnee Mission South in Kansas City, named Verlyn Schmidt...from the late 60s to the mid 80s he had top talent and well as double the amount of kids out for X-C that most other schools did. A current day York or Schmidt is Van Rose at Shawnee Mission Northwest. They just won the large school X-C state title for the 13th year in a row! Nobody in KC has come close to that record.

Nice.

I ran for SMNW under Van Rose. Hella of a coach. Better man.

MacTaggart and MacTaggart are brothers. :-) Vandenend and Eric have both done well, but also Adam Roche of York has run with them and has done well as well- not quite as well, but good nonetheless.

I'd say Jim Akita developed after high school.