The thread title was initially incorrect. It said the NBA waived Ivey. We have corrected the title. Also the OP failed to provide a link explaining why Ivey, the 5th pick in the 2022 draft and the son of the Notre Dame women's basketball coach, was waived. Here is a link:
The first two things you mentioned are not matters of religious conviction, at least not for the overwhelming majority of people. be protected in the same way by a private company. Criticizing Catholicism is, and even as a Protestant I would disagree with criticizing them but would allow it as a religious belief.
You’re assuming that criticizing someone’s sexual orientation - which clearly can change over time and is based around freely chosen activity - and immutable characteristics such as sex and race, are the same. They are not, for the reasons I just suggested. I feel much freer to criticize someone for what they choose to do, but would not want to criticize someone for what they cannot adjust or change.
Religion was used by White people to justify enslavement of Black people.
Religion is still used today to justify oppression of women.
Religion should not be an excuse for bigotry.
Being gay isn't a choice. You can't control who you're attracted to. Did you choose your attractions?
What about workplace environment? Disparaging the identities of coworkers creates a hostile work environment. The coach of the Bulls is Catholic. You really think it's fine for an employee to publicly say his boss's religion is a false religion?
No one has ever said “I’m a Christian and therefore we shouldn’t hire women to referee basketball games.” It’s not a religious issue. Sexuality definitely is. And everyone, gay and straight, choose how to act on their impulses. It is not the same thing as race and sex, and shouldn’t be treated the same.
The NBA pushes a pro-Black view by celebrating Black History Month. Do you think White NBA players should keep their job if they say disparaging things about Black people?
The NBA pushes a pro-women view by hiring women as referees and supporting the WNBA. Do you think NBA players should keep their job if they say disparaging things about women?
Ivey said disparaging things about Catholics too. Are you cool with that, or is it only LGBT people you think that employees should be able to disparage and still keep their job?
The first two things you mentioned are not matters of religious conviction, at least not for the overwhelming majority of people. be protected in the same way by a private company. Criticizing Catholicism is, and even as a Protestant I would disagree with criticizing them but would allow it as a religious belief.
You’re assuming that criticizing someone’s sexual orientation - which clearly can change over time and is based around freely chosen activity - and immutable characteristics such as sex and race, are the same. They are not, for the reasons I just suggested. I feel much freer to criticize someone for what they choose to do, but would not want to criticize someone for what they cannot adjust or change.
You are backpedaling. At first your argument was more or less, “if you don’t support leftist views in the workplace you will be discriminated against. No one ever gets punished for bashing Trump!“ Which is a blatant lie.
Now you are trying to hide behind religion as an excuse to vocalize bigotry that can harm your company’s value, and you are claiming that bigots should receive protection for that. Nonsense. Keep the goalposts planted.
The first two things you mentioned are not matters of religious conviction, at least not for the overwhelming majority of people. be protected in the same way by a private company. Criticizing Catholicism is, and even as a Protestant I would disagree with criticizing them but would allow it as a religious belief.
You’re assuming that criticizing someone’s sexual orientation - which clearly can change over time and is based around freely chosen activity - and immutable characteristics such as sex and race, are the same. They are not, for the reasons I just suggested. I feel much freer to criticize someone for what they choose to do, but would not want to criticize someone for what they cannot adjust or change.
You are backpedaling. At first your argument was more or less, “if you don’t support leftist views in the workplace you will be discriminated against. No one ever gets punished for bashing Trump!“ Which is a blatant lie.
Now you are trying to hide behind religion as an excuse to vocalize bigotry that can harm your company’s value, and you are claiming that bigots should receive protection for that. Nonsense. Keep the goalposts planted.
I am not backpedaling. In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA
You are backpedaling. At first your argument was more or less, “if you don’t support leftist views in the workplace you will be discriminated against. No one ever gets punished for bashing Trump!“ Which is a blatant lie.
Now you are trying to hide behind religion as an excuse to vocalize bigotry that can harm your company’s value, and you are claiming that bigots should receive protection for that. Nonsense. Keep the goalposts planted.
I am not backpedaling. In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA
Acknowledge that it is not only disagreeing with liberal views that can get you fired by your employer. Acknowledge that Trump has fired federal employees for dissent.
I am not backpedaling. In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA
Acknowledge that it is not only disagreeing with liberal views that can get you fired by your employer. Acknowledge that Trump has fired federal employees for dissent.
Maybe you did not read this post:
“No, I very strongly disagree with Trump firing anyone who disagrees with him (beyond of course Presidential appointees who work for the President. His anti-liberty tendencies are one of the reasons I have never voted for him.”
It is important to understand that it is not a one-to-one comparison. Leftists are in charge of, or strongly influential in, every aspect of our economy from tech, banking, entertainment, academia, and the government bureaucracy. The left had 100% free rein to enforce its will on virtually all segments of American life for about 10 years. Then Trump took over and it lessened somewhat. But we should not consider that they are the same thing.
I am not backpedaling. In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA
lol. Colbert was cancelled for criticizing Trump. He isn’t even a government employee.
Acknowledge that it is not only disagreeing with liberal views that can get you fired by your employer. Acknowledge that Trump has fired federal employees for dissent.
Maybe you did not read this post:
“No, I very strongly disagree with Trump firing anyone who disagrees with him (beyond of course Presidential appointees who work for the President. His anti-liberty tendencies are one of the reasons I have never voted for him.”
It is important to understand that it is not a one-to-one comparison. Leftists are in charge of, or strongly influential in, every aspect of our economy from tech, banking, entertainment, academia, and the government bureaucracy. The left had 100% free rein to enforce its will on virtually all segments of American life for about 10 years. Then Trump took over and it lessened somewhat. But we should not consider that they are the same thing.
You have done absolutely nothing to support your assertion that it is lopsided discrimination against employees with conservative views. You’ve just said it’s the case. You are pretending there aren’t a litany of industries with conservative power brokers. There’s no substance behind your fairytale story weaving. People in all walks of life get negatively impacted in their careers for voicing viewpoints that depart from their company/company leadership. This is undeniable.
I am not backpedaling. In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA
lol. Colbert was cancelled for criticizing Trump. He isn’t even a government employee.
I’ll repeat what I said. “In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA.”
I am not backpedaling. In our dominant culture, criticism of Trump’s far more acceptable than criticism of the LGBT agenda. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. If Ivey had criticized Trump, he’d be fine in the NBA
lol. Colbert was cancelled for criticizing Trump. He isn’t even a government employee.
“No, I very strongly disagree with Trump firing anyone who disagrees with him (beyond of course Presidential appointees who work for the President. His anti-liberty tendencies are one of the reasons I have never voted for him.”
It is important to understand that it is not a one-to-one comparison. Leftists are in charge of, or strongly influential in, every aspect of our economy from tech, banking, entertainment, academia, and the government bureaucracy. The left had 100% free rein to enforce its will on virtually all segments of American life for about 10 years. Then Trump took over and it lessened somewhat. But we should not consider that they are the same thing.
You have done absolutely nothing to support your assertion that it is lopsided discrimination against employees with conservative views. You’ve just said it’s the case. You are pretending there aren’t a litany of industries with conservative power brokers. There’s no substance behind your fairytale story weaving. People in all walks of life get negatively impacted in their careers for voicing viewpoints that depart from their company/company leadership. This is undeniable.
You’re wrong about that. He supposed “litany” of “conservative power brokers” in “industry” no longer exist if they ever did.
This article is a useful introduction to the power that woke progressivism wields in our culture.
Radical ideologies are infiltrating companies across our country. This toxic woke culture is forcing religious Americans to choose between their faith and their livelihood.
You have done absolutely nothing to support your assertion that it is lopsided discrimination against employees with conservative views. You’ve just said it’s the case. You are pretending there aren’t a litany of industries with conservative power brokers. There’s no substance behind your fairytale story weaving. People in all walks of life get negatively impacted in their careers for voicing viewpoints that depart from their company/company leadership. This is undeniable.
You’re wrong about that. He supposed “litany” of “conservative power brokers” in “industry” no longer exist if they ever did.
This article is a useful introduction to the power that woke progressivism wields in our culture.
Neither of those articles support your statement that industries dominated by conservative power brokers do not exist or that leftist ideology rules everything. They are anecdotal “journalism”.
Neither of those articles support your statement that industries dominated by conservative power brokers do not exist or that leftist ideology rules everything. They are anecdotal “journalism”.
Read them if you want to learn. Since Trump‘s election, there are a handful of wealthy people who are his supporters. I would not call them “conservative” in the normal sense, but they are they are not woke, and exist in much larger numbers than in 2023.
That said, most large culture producing institutions in the United States are run by leftists. If you want to learn more, do so.
Religion was used by White people to justify enslavement of Black people.
Religion is still used today to justify oppression of women.
Religion should not be an excuse for bigotry.
Being gay isn't a choice. You can't control who you're attracted to. Did you choose your attractions?
What about workplace environment? Disparaging the identities of coworkers creates a hostile work environment. The coach of the Bulls is Catholic. You really think it's fine for an employee to publicly say his boss's religion is a false religion?
No one has ever said “I’m a Christian and therefore we shouldn’t hire women to referee basketball games.” It’s not a religious issue. Sexuality definitely is. And everyone, gay and straight, choose how to act on their impulses. It is not the same thing as race and sex, and shouldn’t be treated the same.
You didn't answer my question about workplace environment. You really think it's fine for an employee to publicly say his boss's religion is a false religion?
What do you recommend the GM say to the coach. "Hi Billy, I know being Catholic is very important to you, and Jaden has been saying your religion is false and you're going to hell, but you just need to focus on coaching him to be the best player he can be."
There are traditional religious sects who believe women's place is in the home and they should be kept in separate spaces from men. So it's possible a player who holds that religious view can object to women being referees.
Acting on sexual impulses isn't the point. The point is people can't control who they're attracted to. If someone is gay, they should be able to go to a workplace where their coworkers aren't publicly saying they are "unrighteous."
Neither of those articles support your statement that industries dominated by conservative power brokers do not exist or that leftist ideology rules everything. They are anecdotal “journalism”.
Read them if you want to learn. Since Trump‘s election, there are a handful of wealthy people who are his supporters. I would not call them “conservative” in the normal sense, but they are they are not woke, and exist in much larger numbers than in 2023.
That said, most large culture producing institutions in the United States are run by leftists. If you want to learn more, do so.
Why are you claiming that I haven’t read them? I explained to you exactly what they are and how they don’t support the fairy tale claims you make. Further, why are you acting like “culture producing” industries are the only ones where being discriminated against for vocalizing different viewpoints from your company matters?
The first two things you mentioned are not matters of religious conviction, at least not for the overwhelming majority of people. be protected in the same way by a private company. Criticizing Catholicism is, and even as a Protestant I would disagree with criticizing them but would allow it as a religious belief.
You’re assuming that criticizing someone’s sexual orientation - which clearly can change over time and is based around freely chosen activity - and immutable characteristics such as sex and race, are the same. They are not, for the reasons I just suggested. I feel much freer to criticize someone for what they choose to do, but would not want to criticize someone for what they cannot adjust or change.
Being gay isn't a choice. You can't control who you're attracted to. Did you choose your attractions?
So what youre saying is that both straight and gay people are born with these characteristics, they have that in common. So why then do we only celebrate gayness/trans and nothing else? Why not celebrate left handed people, or blue eyed people, or heterosexuals? All are just random things people are born with. Or, we could simply avoid celebrating arbitrary characteristics people have no control over. Gay and trans people arent special or worthy of celebration any more than anyone else. As you state, they were simply born that way. No different than heterosexuals or people with red hair.
No one has ever said “I’m a Christian and therefore we shouldn’t hire women to referee basketball games.” It’s not a religious issue. Sexuality definitely is. And everyone, gay and straight, choose how to act on their impulses. It is not the same thing as race and sex, and shouldn’t be treated the same.
You didn't answer my question about workplace environment. You really think it's fine for an employee to publicly say his boss's religion is a false religion?
What do you recommend the GM say to the coach. "Hi Billy, I know being Catholic is very important to you, and Jaden has been saying your religion is false and you're going to hell, but you just need to focus on coaching him to be the best player he can be."
There are traditional religious sects who believe women's place is in the home and they should be kept in separate spaces from men. So it's possible a player who holds that religious view can object to women being referees.
Acting on sexual impulses isn't the point. The point is people can't control who they're attracted to. If someone is gay, they should be able to go to a workplace where their coworkers aren't publicly saying they are "unrighteous."
Yes, I do believe it is OK for an employee to believe his boss’s religion is wrong, and to say so. Provided he follows orders.
I am an evangelical Christian. A very large number of very powerful peoplesee my religion as the root of all things wrong in the world. But we’re all grown ups here. If I can deal with some criticism other people can too.
People can be sexually attracted to whoever they want. That’s completely different from acting on it. We are free to criticize people for their actions.
I’m not going to bother responding to your referee example. I’d be surprised if any NBA player said women shouldn’t be referees, and cited some religious reason. But we have an example right in front of us of a Christian player who objects to being on a team that champions the LGBT agenda, which he understands correctly to be sinful according to the holy texts of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. The NBA and the Bulls can do whatever they want, but they shouldn’t clutch their pearls when someone is critical of them. Fact is, there are millions of non-elite people who agree with Ivey.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Yes, I do believe it is OK for an employee to believe his boss’s religion is wrong, and to say so. Provided he follows orders.
Good thing you're not in charge of the rules.
At least you acknowledge employees need to follow orders. Ivey did not. He violated team and league conduct rules. He was released for conduct detrimental to the team. He did not meet the organization's standards for respect and professionalism.
“No, I very strongly disagree with Trump firing anyone who disagrees with him (beyond of course Presidential appointees who work for the President. His anti-liberty tendencies are one of the reasons I have never voted for him.”
It is important to understand that it is not a one-to-one comparison. Leftists are in charge of, or strongly influential in, every aspect of our economy from tech, banking, entertainment, academia, and the government bureaucracy. The left had 100% free rein to enforce its will on virtually all segments of American life for about 10 years. Then Trump took over and it lessened somewhat. But we should not consider that they are the same thing.
This is true. That's why workers have so much control over Silicon Valley and Wall Street and have the politicians in Capitol Hill in their pockets.
Yes, I do believe it is OK for an employee to believe his boss’s religion is wrong, and to say so. Provided he follows orders.
Good thing you're not in charge of the rules.
At least you acknowledge employees need to follow orders. Ivey did not. He violated team and league conduct rules. He was released for conduct detrimental to the team. He did not meet the organization's standards for respect and professionalism.
It’s crazy that people think they have an argument that an employer shouldn’t be able to fire an employee who goes on a bigoted rant that negatively impacts the value of their company. Like they can just say whatever they want and bring all the headaches and somehow be above reproach.
Being gay isn't a choice. You can't control who you're attracted to. Did you choose your attractions?
So what youre saying is that both straight and gay people are born with these characteristics, they have that in common. So why then do we only celebrate gayness/trans and nothing else? Why not celebrate left handed people, or blue eyed people, or heterosexuals? All are just random things people are born with. Or, we could simply avoid celebrating arbitrary characteristics people have no control over. Gay and trans people arent special or worthy of celebration any more than anyone else. As you state, they were simply born that way. No different than heterosexuals or people with red hair.
Obviously it's because homosexual people have been persecuted and subjected to unfair treatment. If that hadn't been the case, there would be no need for celebration now. How could this be difficult to understand?
