I'm just grateful that they did this before some alpha male decided to roll off his couch and transgender and win every woman's event in the Olympics. It was just a matter of time before that happened... because any alpha male can beat any female at anything.
"The IOC states that SRY gene is a reliable test for determining biological sex and therefore who can complete in women’s events. However, this policy is based on the overly simplistic idea that the presence of the SRY gene alone is equivalent to being male."
(Professor Andrew Sinclair who discovered the human SRY gene.)
The SRY gene alone should not determine who can compete in women’s sport dixit prof Sinclair
News flash, the SRY gene is used for screening. If negative, a woman is cleared. If positive more comprehensive testing follows. So it is not the sole determinant.
“You're confused. There were a number of athletes in various sports (such as Caster Semenya but also many others) that were not born female with a genetic mutation, but were born male with a genetic mutation. And being male with a genetic mutation was enough to get a biological male into the female category.”
Weren't they born both ways - “Intersexual” with both male and female parts? And this isn’t just one kind of condition - there are dozens of variations swinging towards either side physiologically.
So how many guys are like him? It's easy to point to rare exceptions to say it's "complicated". It isn't. Aberrations can occur anywhere but they don't disprove the general rule, which doesn't have to be absolute to apply to most individuals.
We don't know how many people like Jay are out there because the medical establishment has tried very hard to hide them from the public view for more than a century. They have tried to "fix" them by performing medically unnecessary surgeries to put them into binary boxes, often without their consent (or their parents' consent).
And they have done this to preserve the heterosexual norm in the society. They tried to separate everyone into "male" and "female" boxes so that people would not be sexually attracted to those of the same "sex." That's the motive behind the concerted efforts to erase intersex people from the public consciousness.
BTW, why are you calling this 46XX SRY negative person a "guy" and "he"? I thought you were a chromosome fundamentalist.
So how many guys are like him? It's easy to point to rare exceptions to say it's "complicated". It isn't. Aberrations can occur anywhere but they don't disprove the general rule, which doesn't have to be absolute to apply to most individuals.
BTW, why are you calling this 46XX SRY negative person a "guy" and "he"? I thought you were a chromosome fundamentalist.
My learnings from this site are that if they look like a man, they are always “he”; if they have male chromosomes and look like a woman, they are still “he”; if they have male chromosomes and look like a super cute girl, then we just avoid using any pronoun for them, and also JAHJ has a thing for them.
Broad LR principals are men generally suspect, trans actually bad, women saints (unless they are liberal in which case they are men and their men women).
The IOC stopped genetic testing back in 1999 for multiple reasons. Seems like those reasons are still valid. So what's changed? Politics and right-wing fearmongering.
AI: Current Status of 1999 Concerns Critics, scientists, and human rights experts argue that the newly reintroduced tests do not address the foundational issues of the past:
Scientific Validity: The new policy claims the test is based on science, yet critics maintain that genetic variation is complex and that a single biomarker (like the SRY gene) is not a definitive measure of athletic performance.
Ethical and Privacy Issues: The mandatory, one-time testing is still viewed by experts as an invasive "policing" of women's bodies. Intersex and DSD Athletes: Similar to the past, these tests can identify Differences of Sex Development (DSD) in athletes who were raised as female, causing significant psychological and emotional distress, as highlighted by Caster Semenya.
False Positives/Accuracy: Concerns persist that the screening could unfairly exclude cisgender women who have specific, rare genetic variations.
With regard to my previous post about fear-mongering, I think Fareed Zakaria has said it best. He argues that in times of uncertainty, people experiencing "existential angst" often turn to right-wing cultural issues, seeking stability through nostalgia, tradition, and identity, rather than purely liberal economic fixes. He notes this backlash is a reaction to rapid economic/technological change, with the right tapping into cultural anxieties (like immigration) more effectively than the left, which focuses on policy, leading to a political realignment where culture and class dominate political identity over purely economic concerns.
Wrong. If you read the article, it clearly states the progress toward this decision started in 2021. I will grant you, though, that once again Trump heard an idea was in the works and claimed it as his own.
“You're confused. There were a number of athletes in various sports (such as Caster Semenya but also many others) that were not born female with a genetic mutation, but were born male with a genetic mutation. And being male with a genetic mutation was enough to get a biological male into the female category.”
Weren't they born both ways - “Intersexual” with both male and female parts?
No. Caster Semenya is a male with a birth defect that caused his penis not to grow and his testes to remain inside his body. That's why when he was born the doctor thought "no penis so Caster must be female" which wasn't true. The kind of DSD that Caster Semenya has only happens in males.
The poster that I was responding to thought that people like Caster Semenya were female with a birth defect, which isn't true. Caster Semenya is a male with a birth defect.
The IOC stopped genetic testing back in 1999 for multiple reasons. Seems like those reasons are still valid. So what's changed? Politics and right-wing fearmongering.
AI: Current Status of 1999 Concerns Critics, scientists, and human rights experts argue that the newly reintroduced tests do not address the foundational issues of the past:
Scientific Validity: The new policy claims the test is based on science, yet critics maintain that genetic variation is complex and that a single biomarker (like the SRY gene) is not a definitive measure of athletic performance.
Ethical and Privacy Issues: The mandatory, one-time testing is still viewed by experts as an invasive "policing" of women's bodies. Intersex and DSD Athletes: Similar to the past, these tests can identify Differences of Sex Development (DSD) in athletes who were raised as female, causing significant psychological and emotional distress, as highlighted by Caster Semenya.
False Positives/Accuracy: Concerns persist that the screening could unfairly exclude cisgender women who have specific, rare genetic variations.
Your post is totally wrong.
1. The new rules do NOT use SRY gene as the only thing they look at.
2. Even Nikki Hiltz, who complains about lots of things, doesn't object to this new rule. And the current drug testing policy of regularly having to pee in front of a stranger is much more invasive of someone's privacy than a one-time-in-your-life cheek swab.
3. People with a Caster Semenya type of DSD would have already been discovered by simple drug testing, because their testosterone is much higher than the female limits. Plus, any "female' who hasn't had their period by age 17 or 18 would have already gone to a doctor and found out that they were biologically male, long before World Athletics asked them for a check swab.
4. Anyone who doesn't pass the screening can appeal. They aren't automatically excluded immediately.
With regard to my previous post about fear-mongering, I think Fareed Zakaria has said it best. He argues that in times of uncertainty, people experiencing "existential angst" often turn to right-wing cultural issues, seeking stability through nostalgia, tradition, and identity, rather than purely liberal economic fixes. He notes this backlash is a reaction to rapid economic/technological change, with the right tapping into cultural anxieties (like immigration) more effectively than the left, which focuses on policy, leading to a political realignment where culture and class dominate political identity over purely economic concerns.
"Super cute girls" with X chromosome make men on this board extremely insecure because they are forced to question their sexual orientation.
TERF women have a different reason to be upset. Those trans girls can easily enter "women's spaces" without being noticed. And even worse, most cis women do not seem to care, even if they notice those girls are trans. But here is the inconvenient truth for TERFs. Cis lesbians actually have more positive views on trans people than trans people themselves!
Everyone knows this was BS from the start. It's this administration to eliminate people like this from existence. There was never issue with regard to track. Any idiot can google the following for confirmation.
From 2004 until 2022, MTF Trans Women were eligible to compete in their preferred gender of female in the Olympics and all International Competitions. This was approved by all international organizations including the International Olympic Committee
During that period of time there were 5 Olympic cycles, 2004, 2008, 2012, 2016 and 2020 and in women’s Track and Field there were 18 individual events per Track and Field competition for which to win medals.
In all those Olympic Games not one trans person ever won a gold, silver or bronze medal in any of the 18 events, that's 34 available medals per Olympic games, and during this period of time there were also 10 world track and field championship cycles that's 34 medal opportunities times 10 world championships, and not one trans person medaled there also or even made the finals and not to mention international cross country races professional road races or marathons.
With 18 years of opportunity not one trans person ever won a race at the highest level against a cis woman, so it's actually BS that there was ever a threat to women’s sports.
If trans people were a threat and superior surely, they would be running away with some sort or Olympics , world championship, cross country or marathon race medals and money the enormous amount of money that comes with winning those races but not one trans person was even good enough to compete with a cis women in 18 years. Facts are Facts.
There are no world class trans women in any track and field or marathon or road race competition anywhere in athletics on planet earth an never has been.
Not ONE! There was a trans woman who competed in the 2020 American Olympic Trials in the marathon. Her name was Megan Youngren.
, the famous Olympic trials that produced Molly Seidel who won the bronze in the Olympics.
But how did that trans women do in the Olympic Trials? Did she compete for the top three Olympic berths? NO, she finished 260th. There was a trans weightlifter from New Zealand who made the 2020 Olympics. Her name was Laurel Hubbard, Well maybe trans people can't run but surly a contest of strength they would have an advantage.
Did she win an Olympic medal? No, New Zealand's transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard did not win an Olympic medal; she competed in the Tokyo 2020 Games (held in 2021) and was eliminated after failing all three of her snatch attempts in the over-87kg category, making her the first openly transgender woman to compete at the Olympics but ending her competition early without a medal.
So even in a sport of strength, the trans woman could not even compete with cis women and could not even lift the opening weight. Again, here are the specifics for those blinded by ignorance and the color of hatred!
Again, this is 18 years of observation, asking questions, analyzing, drawing conclusions. From 2004 until 2022, MTF Trans Women were eligible to compete in the Olympics and all International Competitions but under certain conditions
In 2004 MTF Trans Women could compete only if they had gender/sex – reassignment surgery.
So, you can imagine that being a fairly small number. But in 2015 It was changed that surgery was no longer required and from 2015 – 2022 they would only require hormone replacement therapy, but no surgery.
Between 2004 and 2022 there were at least 765 number of medal opportunities from a MTF trans woman to have competed against a cis woman athlete in these high-level track and field competitions.
In all the Olympiads and World Championships totaling 765 medals, but also 18 years of Diamond League meets and the total medals available or opportunities a trans person could compete again against cis woman is about is 5,400 opportunities, and if you add in road race opportunities and marathons over an 18 year period you can easily add another at least 500 opportunities and that’s the low end.
So to answer the question, from 2004 until 2022 and some 6,500 opportunities for a MTF Trans woman to compete against a Cis woman, so given these opportunities, how many total medals did the trans woman win?????????????????????????????????????
ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO , ZERO, ZERO, ZERO, ZERO ZERO.
That’s right and you can google or research this. No MTF trans woman has EVER beaten a cis woman in world class competition in any country anywhere on planet earth!
After 18 years, at the highest levels, there is no evidence at all to substantiate that trans people on full HRT would be a threat to women’s sports or they would have won something some medal given over 16,500 opportunities in an 18 year period ??????????????????
This was never about women’s sports, it is about a far-right Christian ideology by such groups as the Alliance Defending Freedom, The Heritage Foundation, and their Project 2025.
It has nothing to do with sports, but they needed someone in sports, a foil to bring fear and fear is the number one tool of a bigot and the 2nd tool is having an audience that is ignorant and gullible.
They first tried to seize on their hysteria with 2 high school trans girls, but that didn’t resonate for a couple reason. 1st they were juveniles and 2nd they were black. If they jumped on them, they would have had to deal with the black community, usually conservative on LGBTQ issues, but a bunch of white people jumping on black kids would not have looked good or played well. They needed someone white!
The foil was Lisa Thomas; who played by the rules and did everything right ;
Lia Catherine Thomas (born May 1999) is an American swimmer and the first openly transgender athlete to win an NCAA Division I national championship, having won the women's 500-yard freestyle event in 2022, before being barre...
a female trans swimmer who won a couple NCAA Championship Swimming races. She didn’t win every race she entered, but the fact that she won one or two races was seized on by the bigots and they built a cottage industry around fear which had worldwide ramifications.
Based on this fear generated by American Bigots, the International Olympic Committee banned trans people from competing in the Olympics for the first time since they were authorized way back in 2004.
No trans person as discussed ever won a darn thing in the 18 years they were eligible to compete, but they were banned anyway, all done because of fear and bigotry and hate motivated by America!
Again this was never about sports because in America there have been 830 bills promulgated against trans people in 49 states https://translegislation.com/ and most have nothing to do with sports ;
Transphobia in the United States has changed over time. Understanding and acceptance of transgender people have both decreased and increased during the last few decades depending on the details of the issues which have been f...
Thirty-three transgender and gender-nonconforming people have been killed in the U.S. since last year's Transgender Day of Remembrance, the Human Rights Campaign said.
This hate and evil bigotry in the US have become similar to some other countries. It is not yet on the level of these, but it is perilously moving in that direction esp. with the current Presidential administration and in states lead by republican political leadership:
The US wants to be like these countries the worst in the world for trans people: Afghanistan, Brunei, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Libya, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Turkmenistan, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen
Unfortunately, the US now wants to be the opposite of these countries that are welcoming for trans people and the LGBTQ community: Countries with Strong Transgender Rights and Acceptance:
I say what is really happening is they are looking for a "Final Solution,” of the transgender problem as these religious, radical bigots see it. That starts with the demonizing of a small minority, making them the cause of everyone’s problems, then systematically eliminating them from existence.
The sports issue is a non-issue and anyone with a quarter of a brain would understand that this is 100% about bigotry and fear of the other and intolerance, always the seeds throughout history for genocide!
This hatred of trans people makes no more sense than the Nazi’s hate of Jews or White people’s hatred of black people for most of this country’s history or the hatred of gays.
Transgender people a very tiny part of the population is just the latest in a long history of America and its intolerance. It is easy to hate in the absence of research. White people use to say black people were no better than apes and had tails and were a danger to white people esp. white women and had the movie A Birth of a Nation propaganda to illustrate their point, , in Germany it was Jews who was making life worse for everyone or that is what that dictator claimed.
The next step or final solution for trans people is genocide!
No one is better than the right wing of America at sowing hate taking an insignificant issue, blowing it up and winning with it. That is right out of Mein Kampf, and it worked very well in 1933 Germany.
When the leader of 1933 Germany Hitler won, many in corporate America stood by him
Germany’s Nazi era was one of the darkest chapters in human history. Fortunately for mankind, Hitler’s “Thousand Year Reich” lasted only twelve years before getting stomped into the dirt. Still, Germany was one of the world’s...
and people of good will hid, the same things democrats are doing now!
The total elimination of trans people in this country is the final step they will try, and democrats will do nothing or maybe they will grow a spine! They say there are almost a million-trans people in the United States, well that many were eliminated in just 90 days in Rwanda!
But this administration in Washington will continue to stoke the seeds of fear, its trans people making your bills increase, its trans people as to why you lost your job, its trans people making the cost of food, gas and electricity increase, it’s trans people this, its trans people that……………………….. Until there are no more trans people and your life will improve.
We’ve seen this logic in history before and as they say history repeats itself! So, when they say this is about sports, I hope one thing I showed you was that you can spit some facts Now
This has not one thing to do with sports. For almost liken 20 years trans people were allowed to compete in the Olympics and never won anything, never even made a semi-final or final of any track and field event or world championship event or diamond league. It is just all part of a pattern particularly in the United States
The United States is run by a religious theocracy and soon it will be no better than what is going on in Iran. The of this era which the president goes by in priority of all other authorities including the constitution is Project 2025, this era's Mein Kampf
It details the step by step genocide or transgender people:
Project 2025, a detailed policy blueprint organized by The Heritage Foundation for a future conservative administration, outlines a comprehensive plan to restrict transgender rights and reverse gender-affirming policies across federal agencies. The document calls for the removal of protections against discrimination based on gender identity and frequently labels transgender existence as "transgender ideology" or a "toxic normalization" that should be eliminated. National Women's Law Center +2
Key proposals regarding transgender people in Project 2025 include:
Erasure of Gender Identity in Law: The document calls for removing the terms "sexual orientation," "gender identity," and "gender equity" from every federal rule, regulation, contract, and piece of legislation. It seeks to restrict the definition of "sex" to a strict "biological binary" of male and female assigned at birth.
Restricting Healthcare Access: Project 2025 proposes cutting federal funding for gender-affirming care, including through Medicaid and Medicare. It calls on the National Institutes of Health (NIH) to fund research into the "negative effects" of transition-related care and to promote therapies aimed at convincing individuals they are not transgender.
Targeting Transgender Youth and Education: The plan aims to reverse the 2024 Title IX rules that protect LGBTQI+ students. It advocates for prohibiting the use of preferred pronouns in schools, and mandates that teachers and librarians who share material deemed as promoting "transgender ideology" be registered as sex offenders.
"Transgender Ideology" as Pornography: Project 2025 argues that "transgender ideology" should be treated as pornography and therefore removed from schools and public libraries.
Military and Federal Employment: The proposals suggest banning transgender individuals from serving in the military and eliminating policies that prevent discrimination against LGBTQ+ federal employees.
Data Collection: The document instructs the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to cease collecting data on gender identity. National Women's Law Center +7
Advocates say that if implemented, these policies would serve to "comprehensively eradicate trans life" and remove legal protections against discrimination for transgender individuals in healthcare, education, and the workplace.
And the so-called Save America act that is trying to be passed would prohibit transgender people from voting.
The last step in this process will be genocide:
Scholarly discourse, activists, and human rights commentators have increasingly raised concerns that the persecution of transgender people, particularly in the U.S. and globally, fits the criteria for genocide.
These arguments cite rising violence, restricted access to gender-affirming care, and systematic efforts to erase transgender existence from public life. Wikipedia +1 Key Concerns and Arguments:
Targeted Actions: Proponents of this view point to legislative restrictions on gender-affirming care, censorship of language, and bans on transgender people in sports and military service as systemic efforts to destroy the group.
Violence and Abuse: Transgender individuals face elevated risks of violence, which some argue meets the criteria outlined in the UN Genocide Convention.
Historical Comparisons: Some scholars and commentators have compared the current political and social climate to the early stages of persecution against marginalized groups in 1930s Germany.
Lack of Protection: Advocates argue that transgender people often lack the same legal protections afforded to other groups, leaving them vulnerable to abuse. Wikipedia +1
These perspectives are part of a broader, intense debate regarding the treatment of transgender people in the 2020s.
"Elimination" = being required to compete with other males?
inb4 "but they aren't competitive against other males!" Neither are fat males, old males, young males, unfit males, etc. That doesn't entitle them to participate against females.
Besides that, what kind of argument is it that they should be included because they are medically restricted from winning anything? It is completely farcical, doesn't apply to anyone else in the group and indicates that not even you view them as genuinely belonging to the women's category.
This has not one thing to do with sports. For almost liken 20 years trans people were allowed to compete in the Olympics and never won anything, never even made a semi-final or final of any track and field event or world championship event or diamond league.
So what? A 70-year-old male wouldn't win in any elite-level women's T&F event either. They still aren't entitled to that division.
With regard to trans women, this new rule is less of an issue. As trackfangirl and others have pointed out, hardly any trans women have made a dent in international elite competition.
With regard to DSD athletes, however, this new rule is absolutely needed. The 2016 800 podium is clear evidence of that. Those were three XY DSD individuals standing there rather than Melissa Bishop, Joanna Jóźwik, and Lynsey Sharp, or whichever women whose finals spots were taken by the DSD runners.
