Actually this is very interesting to me....maybe iRunFar and SingleTrack pod should report this kind of information (instead of doing sponsored CTS coverage and posts all the time?!). I did not know that at all ( and Wow Koop has been with CTS for a really long time!). That is crazy with the timing. No wonder he got so pissed when I had mentioned " if you're so good at coaching why wouldn't you have branched off on your own and started your own company instead of hiding under CTS which was essentially built on the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong."
And for the "Spring-gate" record: I did not "bully a Type 1 diabetic." I'm generally very sensitive to these things (being a blood clot survivor myself and knowing what it's like to monitoring blood all the time and having a life threatening condition that can make it hard to run sometimes).... I had merely questioned that their personal blood sugar levels/glucose monitor could be influenced by lots of things and that an "n=1 story" wasn't a definitive science experiment. Spring assured us sponsored athletes internally that "their numbers were correct" even after one of the 3rd party tests came out. Turns out I was wrong. The diabetic was right...and Spring was very short on carbs/calories. I apologized.
Again though, this information with Koop joining CTS while there was an investigation into doping minor (not to mention Lance and those other cases!) is pretty crazy. Thanks for sharing this information.
It is indeed very strange that no one has asked Koop why he chose the most notorious doping coach in US cycling history to be his mentor. And it's also strange that no one is asking elite athletes why they have chosen to be coached by such a person (until now).
It seems to me that the vast majority of people in the ultra running community are in total denial about the existence of doping in trail running. And this is a direct result of a failure by trail running media to talk about doping in the sport, and a failure by those making money out of the sport (brands, race organisers) to bring in an effective anti-doping system.
Podcasters and other media outlets only want to put out stories with a positive spin - take Freetrail. It's quite sickening the way Dylan Bowman is using his platform to give dopers a chance to make excuses (he was coached by Koop wasn't he, hmmmm). I'm sure he'll have Ashley Paulson on his show next explaining why she's not really a doper either! I'd much rather listen to a podcast featuring a hard working unsponsored athlete who's making progress and not been caught doping.
I'm usually one to brush off old timers reminiscing, but I can totally understand the OGs yearning for the "good old days" of ultrarunning - early 2000s, definitely pre-2012ish.
The fact that you have "pros" now doping for 5-figure sponsorships is insane. Races getting bought out, prices through the roof, you've now got corporate interests like CTS, Higher Running, and Free Trail controlling the narrative and the purse strings... disgusting. Just feels so corporate and slimy compared to when it was just bearded dudes running for days and drinking beer.
It is indeed very strange that no one has asked Koop why he chose the most notorious doping coach in US cycling history to be his mentor. And it's also strange that no one is asking elite athletes why they have chosen to be coached by such a person (until now).
It seems to me that the vast majority of people in the ultra running community are in total denial about the existence of doping in trail running. And this is a direct result of a failure by trail running media to talk about doping in the sport, and a failure by those making money out of the sport (brands, race organisers) to bring in an effective anti-doping system.
Podcasters and other media outlets only want to put out stories with a positive spin - take Freetrail. It's quite sickening the way Dylan Bowman is using his platform to give dopers a chance to make excuses (he was coached by Koop wasn't he, hmmmm). I'm sure he'll have Ashley Paulson on his show next explaining why she's not really a doper either! I'd much rather listen to a podcast featuring a hard working unsponsored athlete who's making progress and not been caught doping.
I'm usually one to brush off old timers reminiscing, but I can totally understand the OGs yearning for the "good old days" of ultrarunning - early 2000s, definitely pre-2012ish.
The fact that you have "pros" now doping for 5-figure sponsorships is insane. Races getting bought out, prices through the roof, you've now got corporate interests like CTS, Higher Running, and Free Trail controlling the narrative and the purse strings... disgusting. Just feels so corporate and slimy compared to when it was just bearded dudes running for days and drinking beer.
Looks like you got one of your former posts got moderated/removed? Hmmm....I wonder why....
This "OG" attitude may be true and valid....however don't be grouping "Higher Running" (my coaching business) with the likes of CTS or Free Trail. We're "small potatoes" compared to those big time, cash infused operations. It's literally just me and Sandi and a few other coaches. We also don't coach and promote pros and try to actually instead give out informative and helpful running advice and tips...
Again, CTS is a massive financial power player (imo built off the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong and apparently several others with Carmichael... and then Koop joining around those "investigation times"...)
And Free Trail with Dylan is a media outlet more so. I believe they have a lot of cash to throw around it seems (and/or Dylan has a lot of connections). But yeah "Dbo" promoting former convicted dopers in ultra running is not cool imo. A lot of us are very hard working, clean ultra runners that have dedicated decades to the sport and really fight at the margins to try to compete.
We know top 10 runners have been busted at UTMB, Sierre-Zinal and the World Mountain Running Champs and Comrades on the few race day tests they've sometimes had. Some have even been EPO positives! There's barely any testing in the sport. I don't even think Western States was even using WADA/USADA until maybe very recently (if they even started?). "Quartz" was a total joke and basically fake testing. The sport ripe for doping imo.
That being said, I wouldn't be "suspicious" of say a former 2:20s marathoner running like a 8:30 at the Black Canyon 100km. That's actually kind of a regression in relative performances imo. It's more of: Why would you want to align yourself with CTS (given all this history)?
This is referred to as the “expert fallacy” and its most effective when directed at lay people.
"Calling an MD/PhD in epidemiology from Stanford the 'expert fallacy' here is a bit odd. An expert fallacy would be citing an MD/PhD in epidemiology to comment on geopolitics or Renaissance art.
Discussing physiology, nutrition, and training with those credentials seems less like a fallacy and more like … relevant background?
Your reaction actually feels closer to a Sally Rooney dynamic—when someone’s credentials and competence in the same domain somehow become the reason people decide they shouldn’t count."
I know an ex-cornell runner who was like a nutrition major who cleared $1.5+ million in medical devices sales. One of my best buds in the world clears 500+ k a year in medical device sales.
Exactly. It’s a lucrative job but I can tell you after 15 years of dealing with drug reps and device sales reps they are nothing more than salesman, and coincidently lean on the attractive side. Having an MD not only doesn’t help you in this field but now you are stuck paying hundreds of thousands of dollar in debt. Of course Megan Roche is going to flaunt her “double doctor” status to gain credibility on all things science related. This is referred to as the “expert fallacy” and its most effective when directed at lay people.
What is worse a guy who gives you stock plans while pretending they’re personalized or a pompous 1k a month “science” man who isn’t too nice of a person? Notice you never hear about the middle of the pack runners Koop coaches. You only hear about Farvard, Hall, Dakota Jones, Schide. His training isn’t even complicated when you look at his athletes Stravas. I wouldn’t pay the guy even 250 a month.
This is referred to as the “expert fallacy” and its most effective when directed at lay people.
"Calling an MD/PhD in epidemiology from Stanford the 'expert fallacy' here is a bit odd. An expert fallacy would be citing an MD/PhD in epidemiology to comment on geopolitics or Renaissance art.
Discussing physiology, nutrition, and training with those credentials seems less like a fallacy and more like … relevant background?
Your reaction actually feels closer to a Sally Rooney dynamic—when someone’s credentials and competence in the same domain somehow become the reason people decide they shouldn’t count."
And not to forget how they google their names constantly and post as a chat bot… totally normal behavior.
I'm usually one to brush off old timers reminiscing, but I can totally understand the OGs yearning for the "good old days" of ultrarunning - early 2000s, definitely pre-2012ish.
The fact that you have "pros" now doping for 5-figure sponsorships is insane. Races getting bought out, prices through the roof, you've now got corporate interests like CTS, Higher Running, and Free Trail controlling the narrative and the purse strings... disgusting. Just feels so corporate and slimy compared to when it was just bearded dudes running for days and drinking beer.
Looks like you got one of your former posts got moderated/removed? Hmmm....I wonder why....
This "OG" attitude may be true and valid....however don't be grouping "Higher Running" (my coaching business) with the likes of CTS or Free Trail. We're "small potatoes" compared to those big time, cash infused operations. It's literally just me and Sandi and a few other coaches. We also don't coach and promote pros and try to actually instead give out informative and helpful running advice and tips...
Again, CTS is a massive financial power player (imo built off the lies and doping of Lance Armstrong and apparently several others with Carmichael... and then Koop joining around those "investigation times"...)
And Free Trail with Dylan is a media outlet more so. I believe they have a lot of cash to throw around it seems (and/or Dylan has a lot of connections). But yeah "Dbo" promoting former convicted dopers in ultra running is not cool imo. A lot of us are very hard working, clean ultra runners that have dedicated decades to the sport and really fight at the margins to try to compete.
We know top 10 runners have been busted at UTMB, Sierre-Zinal and the World Mountain Running Champs and Comrades on the few race day tests they've sometimes had. Some have even been EPO positives! There's barely any testing in the sport. I don't even think Western States was even using WADA/USADA until maybe very recently (if they even started?). "Quartz" was a total joke and basically fake testing. The sport ripe for doping imo.
That being said, I wouldn't be "suspicious" of say a former 2:20s marathoner running like a 8:30 at the Black Canyon 100km. That's actually kind of a regression in relative performances imo. It's more of: Why would you want to align yourself with CTS (given all this history)?
There's an interesting search feature on the USADA site that provides basic information on how many times a particular US athlete has been tested by USADA. It makes for embarrassing reading from a US trail running perspective!
Big trail races like UTMB and WSER should perhaps take a leaf out of Comrades' book. SAIDS (the South African anti-doping agency) test deep at Comrades (top 10 finishers, male and female), and test top ranked athletes randomly in the months leading up to the event. Moreover, top 5 finishers enter the SAIDS registered testing pool for out of competition testing for a couple of years.
If only other countries were so proud of their sport that they were prepared to go to such lengths to ensure that it has a clean reputation!
Sage, you think Free Trail has promoted doers? I think they've been pretty fair on Stian and McKenzie, hearing them out, maybe not asking the very hard questions of Stian.
I don't generally understand why the public is so hard on Paulson but not McKenzie when it was Paulson that was actually able to identify the exact supplement and received a lesser ban.
Sage, you think Free Trail has promoted doers? I think they've been pretty fair on Stian and McKenzie, hearing them out, maybe not asking the very hard questions of Stian.
I don't generally understand why the public is so hard on Paulson but not McKenzie when it was Paulson that was actually able to identify the exact supplement and received a lesser ban.
Anyone that has served a doping ban in the past is a "convicted doper." McKenzie is flat out banned from Western States 100 for life...hence why she can't "earn a Golden Ticket." Paulson also banned for life I believe. These were 6-month min bans....not a "slap on the wrist" 3 month ones...
There have been way worst offenders in Ultra-Trail Running of course (think like EPO positives Desco and Calisto...who was "5th "at UTMB). Not to mention Joyline Chepngeno doping for the "win" Sierre-Zinal. (And to the poster who posted about Comrades...yes, I'm well aware of the doping issues there as I was 15th there in 2015 and and I believe at least 2 of the top 10 ahead of me tripped doping positive tests...ON THE DAY).
I think ultra-trail running is generally "more clean" than road running and track and ironman. But it's certainly "not 100% clean" and there's a lot of conflicts of interest with money being thrown around for this and that and the media landscape of who's being promoted (or not) as well as a general lack of proper testing (out of comp!) and controls imo. Records going down left and right (and it's not just because of "high carb fueling") imo.
Big coaching outfits (who have a history of working with doping athletes) and races welcoming back former convicted dopers with open arms...smh
Sage, you think Free Trail has promoted doers? I think they've been pretty fair on Stian and McKenzie, hearing them out, maybe not asking the very hard questions of Stian.
I don't generally understand why the public is so hard on Paulson but not McKenzie when it was Paulson that was actually able to identify the exact supplement and received a lesser ban.
Anyone that has served a doping ban in the past is a "convicted doper." McKenzie is flat out banned from Western States 100 for life...hence why she can't "earn a Golden Ticket." Paulson also banned for life I believe. These were 6-month min bans....not a "slap on the wrist" 3 month ones...
There have been way worst offenders in Ultra-Trail Running of course (think like EPO positives Desco and Calisto...who was "5th "at UTMB). Not to mention Joyline Chepngeno doping for the "win" Sierre-Zinal. (And to the poster who posted about Comrades...yes, I'm well aware of the doping issues there as I was 15th there in 2015 and and I believe at least 2 of the top 10 ahead of me tripped doping positive tests...ON THE DAY).
I think ultra-trail running is generally "more clean" than road running and track and ironman. But it's certainly "not 100% clean" and there's a lot of conflicts of interest with money being thrown around for this and that and the media landscape of who's being promoted (or not) as well as a general lack of proper testing (out of comp!) and controls imo. Records going down left and right (and it's not just because of "high carb fueling") imo.
Big coaching outfits (who have a history of working with doping athletes) and races welcoming back former convicted dopers with open arms...smh
This whole thread was informative re: the Ultra scene.
Looking forward to seeing Molly have fun on the trails!!!
Molly shouldn’t be the target here. She honestly had no clue about the CTS history. Why aren’t we talking about the Koop more and the fact that’s he’s a massive walking moral dilemma. Anyone of the standout athletes coached by him should be under scrutiny by association (Abby hall, Katie schide, etc) Look at how quickly they recover from competing unbelievable training volume because #carbs. I think there’s a high likelihood they maybe not be doing anything banned but have found grey area training modalities like mega dosing prescriptions anti inflammatory meds for these blocks or abuse of other “legal” meds. Or maybe not, maybe they’re all on peptides.