FYI….pro triathletes run 28 minutes for 10k off the bike, 1:06 half’s and 2:26 marathons. Alex Yee Gold medal winner in triathlon just ran a 2:06 marathon.
And? OP could snag his pro card in two months if he wanted to train 15 hours a week to do it. I'm not saying he's going to beat Alex Yee, but he could certainly be a pro triathlete if he wanted to. And he would be a lot better at triathlon than he is at running. No women would beat him, and certainly no 40-something women. But he doesn't want to, so it's a moot point.
Maybe yes maybe no. 2 months is crazy tight when he hasn't been swimming, doesn't push pro level bike watts (to our knowledge), & isn't used to running off the bike. Probably in within a 1-2 year window if he started training imo.
Triathlon isn't whatever people think it used to be. US standard has gotten harder every year since at least 2020. Running fast is different, after hammering a swim & bike. Plenty of lighter runners get walked on the bike. They think 20mph is cruising until they realize everyone is going 25-30. If you bleed time on the bike your run doesn't matter & your pro card isn't happening.
Recently? & hit the standard the right # of times in the same year or auto-qualified at a particular race? Times have changed. More in line with what TGOB outlined. Maybe the exception is if you're strong in the heat & cherry picked a race where the mid-pack really suffered & drove score ratings up at the top (if you're talking that route). & even then you'd have to do that 2x.
Recently? & hit the standard the right # of times in the same year or auto-qualified at a particular race? Times have changed. More in line with what TGOB outlined. Maybe the exception is if you're strong in the heat & cherry picked a race where the mid-pack really suffered & drove score ratings up at the top (if you're talking that route). & even then you'd have to do that 2x.
It's been a few years. Was top 3 amateur at races with the requisite pro prize purse.
At La Quinta 70.3 this past weekend, the third place amateur (who could turn pro) went 4:02, with a 26 minute swim, 2:07 bike, and 1:23 half marathon. That's pretty solid but 25 minutes slower than the winner, and it's a race filled with studs from California.
Lots of these 70.3 races with $40K prize purses don't have that many fast amateurs.
Come on mate that title and post about running low volume and not doing crazy workouts is just condescending, 2:25 is a fantastic time and out of reach for the vast majority of people. Add in that you’re young, have an extensive history of swimming, and also have a coach and you have the reason why you were able to get there, even off ‘low’ volume.
I say this as a 2:17 marathoner who’s training for a sub 2:15 attempt in April, running 2:25 would still be a very honest days work for me and you should be proud of your achievement because it’s no small feat. Hopefully you can kick on further, you seem to have the right framework to do so but don’t forget about how you’re in small minority of people running these marathon times
Congrats on an impressive result. I’m curious; I’m guessing all other mileage was easy - what kind of pace range did you run for those?
Good question. Copy/pasting my response in "What is your easy pace, and what was your last race pace?" thread:
Easy pace: 7:00-9:00+/mi (rarely faster than 7:30)
Last race pace: 73 min half = 5:35/mi
I used to care how fast I ran my easy days, but as I've gotten faster I've actually run my easy days slower. Currently training for a sub-2:30 marathon and during my peak mileage weeks I never ran faster than 8:00/mi on my easy runs, but obviously workout days were much faster. Now that I'm tapering my easy days are closer to 7:30/mi as I'm starting to feel fresher. In my opinion, easy should be a feeling, not a pace.
Congrats on an impressive result. I’m curious; I’m guessing all other mileage was easy - what kind of pace range did you run for those?
Good question. Copy/pasting my response in "What is your easy pace, and what was your last race pace?" thread:
Easy pace: 7:00-9:00+/mi (rarely faster than 7:30)
Last race pace: 73 min half = 5:35/mi
I used to care how fast I ran my easy days, but as I've gotten faster I've actually run my easy days slower. Currently training for a sub-2:30 marathon and during my peak mileage weeks I never ran faster than 8:00/mi on my easy runs, but obviously workout days were much faster. Now that I'm tapering my easy days are closer to 7:30/mi as I'm starting to feel fresher. In my opinion, easy should be a feeling, not a pace.
Also:
Update: Ran a 2:25 marathon yesterday and double-checked my easy paces over my 12 week build: 90% of my easy runs were slower than 7:30/mi and more than half were slower than 8:00/mi. I often ran 9:00/mi on days after workouts.
Come on mate that title and post about running low volume and not doing crazy workouts is just condescending, 2:25 is a fantastic time and out of reach for the vast majority of people. Add in that you’re young, have an extensive history of swimming, and also have a coach and you have the reason why you were able to get there, even off ‘low’ volume.
I say this as a 2:17 marathoner who’s training for a sub 2:15 attempt in April, running 2:25 would still be a very honest days work for me and you should be proud of your achievement because it’s no small feat. Hopefully you can kick on further, you seem to have the right framework to do so but don’t forget about how you’re in small minority of people running these marathon times
Hey Sarsy,
Tried to give a more measured response on Page 1, but I'll attempt to clarify here:
First, you are correct, it is a fast time which most people will never run. I am not claiming that anyone could run 2:25 off of my training. However, I am claiming that if you are talented enough 2:25 does not require high volume training with crazy workouts. Stuff like: 100+ mi weeks, double threshold, 3x10k or 5-4-3-2-1mi @ MP inside long run, etc etc. are what the pros do. Us 'normal' folk can make progress on much less (normal is relative). Moreover, in my opinion it is actually better for long term progression to keep these bullets in the chamber so that you actually have a way to progress training. Part of why I am so optimistic about progressing in the future is that I have lots of room to increase my volume and do harder, longer workouts going forward. If I had run 100 mi weeks with borderline marathon efforts every long run this build I would think to myself: That's great, but where do I go from here?
Second, this thread has actually convinced me I am more talented than I perhaps gave myself credit for. Never thought of myself as talented because I was quite bad at running when I first started. I am certainly beginning to re-evaluate this...
Third, well done! 2:17 is a time I aspire to, but I am still very proud of 2:25. It was NOT easy at all. Felt like I was going to pass out the last few miles and had to fight very hard to hold on. However, for those of us in the minority (you and I) I think there is some useful information in the training that I posted, for the reasons described above.
Lastly, to be clear, 2:25 was my absolute best on the day. You are a much better marathoner than I am. I think that at most if I had paced more evenly I could have perhaps run a 2:24 low. No chance I was running anywhere close to 2:17 last weekend.
Would you be willing to give a brief overview of your training and your running history?
Recently? & hit the standard the right # of times in the same year or auto-qualified at a particular race? Times have changed. More in line with what TGOB outlined. Maybe the exception is if you're strong in the heat & cherry picked a race where the mid-pack really suffered & drove score ratings up at the top (if you're talking that route). & even then you'd have to do that 2x.
It's been a few years. Was top 3 amateur at races with the requisite pro prize purse.
At La Quinta 70.3 this past weekend, the third place amateur (who could turn pro) went 4:02, with a 26 minute swim, 2:07 bike, and 1:23 half marathon. That's pretty solid but 25 minutes slower than the winner, and it's a race filled with studs from California.
Lots of these 70.3 races with $40K prize purses don't have that many fast amateurs.
Fair is fair -- you're entitled to everything in here. I tend to think amateur fields are pretty stacked these days/a lot of amateurs stay amateur who can/should turn pro just because it feels good to make an AG podium. I'm basically in this category. I'm older now & wanted to challenge myself. It might've been a mistake, but I'm glad to have given it a go/tried to find out. It's also wildly different racing at the pointy AG end versus mid-pack pro level. I don't think people understand this who trash pros finishing outside the money. AGers can draft on the swim, can slingshot on the bike, & their races aren't really officiated imo. A lot of pros give up time to the best AGers because they're essentially doing a solo time trial. Plus you could have a race where pros can't wear the wetsuit & AGers can. Makes no sense for a back of pack MPro swimmer to even show. Would be great to bring some of those guys up to the pro ranks & compete all together, or if IM did something to bring some pros back down by creating some sort of 1st wave where everyone up front AG is racing together. I don't think big pro fields are bad tho. It's not our fault there's no money in the sport. Really narrow view (not saying this is your opinion) to think only people in the money are worthy. It's kind of a joke how races don't go past 10 deep & 15 at the World Champs.
Regardless, 4:02 would've gotten the AG winner 28th or 29th MPro out of 39. Smaller pro field than usual. That 4:02 might slow down a little in the pro race as well, but I think they're still a pro if they want to be. 26/2:07 is pro level racing for sure. The run can be improved. 15th-27th was separated by only 4min. Maybe the top-3 pathway should go away, or maybe require hitting the score standard if you finish top-3 so you could just do it 1x. I kind of agree that the money is sort of arbitrary. You could throw down a crazy time at a local race & you're still forced to pay money to get to a bigger race. I hear you though. It can be random if the race is stacked or not if you go that route. The pro standard seems fair & has gotten tougher every year since at least 2020. Scores can get a bit inflated in bad weather & can be low on a good weather day, even if you rip it.