One never knows the full story from the outside, but it sure seems like there are lots of danger signs. Hoey is clearly a talent, but seems like he needs some hand holding. I hope it works out for him but if I had to bet, I'd bet against.
Here is Rojo's column on the matter: https://www.letsrun.com/news/2...
One never knows the full story from the outside, but it sure seems like there are lots of danger signs. Hoey is clearly a talent, but seems like he needs some hand holding. I hope it works out for him but if I had to bet, I'd bet against.
When you're all in, and have every resource, but stagnate... This is exactly the type of situation that pushes people to PEDs. The entire thing screams of "win at all costs". The indoor title and the breakout year wasn't enough, they want outdoor champ, Olympic medals etc. etc....
Next stop: Cooper Lutkenhaus' coach.
this and this wrote:
Actually it is more like firing a coach who led a 9-8 team in 2024 that barely lost in the first round of the playoffs that year (4th place in the Olympic Trials) to a 15-2 record in 2025, but then they were unpredictably upset in the first round of the playoffs again by a Wildcard runner named Cooper.
Hoey did not get a chance to compete in the rest of the playoffs (rounds of Olympics/ World Championships) and was nowhere near competing in the Super Bowl (Olympic/World Championship Final).
Hoey was much better than '2-15' in 2024, as he made the Olympic Trials Final and finished a strong fourth in a personal best 1:44:12 (.15 behind third). A 2-15 equivalent runner would not have even qualified to compete in the first round of the Trials.
Sounds like last year’s Cleveland Cavaliers. I’m sure they gave zero thought to firing Atkinson
Tea2025 wrote:
I’ll spill the tea—
I used to work at a running store the Hoey’s used to frequent. Their dad is downright mentally abusive. One time, Josh wanted a pair of Brooks shoes, and he basically barked at him to be quiet. “You’re getting Nikes. Be quiet.” Built them their own track. Used to buy them new running watches every Christmas.
Jaxson was a state champion, and Josh went to three high schools in four years. Everything is a package deal for them so the dad can be in control. The second someone says something he doesn’t agree with, that’s it. He’s volatile. One of my favorites is that he told me “his kids were leaving Oregon (Josh was committed there after Jaxson transferred in) because they’re bringing in Virginia Tech’s coach, Ben Thomas. He doesn’t know how to coach and makes his mid-d guys run cross country.” The next year or so, Hocker and Teare were tearing up the NCAA under Thomas.
The thing that bothers me the most is the Hoeys will say “it’s God’s plan” when they leave programs. No— THEY’RE the problem. Josh is so talented but stuck under dad’s control. Here are all of the programs they’ve left: Malvern Prep, Downingtown West, Shanahan, Penn State, Oregon, Tennessee (decommitted), Lee LeBadie, Terrance Mahon, Matt Centrowitz, Sr., Tommy Nohilly, Rena Reiner, Justin Rinaldi (plus, these are just the ones we know about. The father begged Marcus O’Sullivan to coach them, and he said no).
They’re the Ball Family of track, and that might even be an insult to Lamelo & co.
Yep, people want to talk about the programs he’s left as a pro, but the pattern was set way before that. It should also be mentioned that mom worked her ways in as an assistant at Downingtown and a girls’ head coach at Shanahan, and pretty sure she left when they were told they couldn’t use Shanahan’s facilities anymore.
Was he??? wrote:
If there's one thing to commend Rinaldi for here it's his integrity. I imagine many coaches would go along with Hoey's inadvisable plans for 2026 in order to milk the cash cow that is Fran Hoey for all he is worth, and I wouldn't blame them!
Correct. He's got a family and just quit his job.
Amazing. The great coaches believe in their stuff and don't want to compromise.
What's weird though is couldn't you say the same about Josh? He's sticking to his guns as well. Just in his case, I think it's crazy and he also doesn't have to worry about finances.
ITS THE DAD!
Spot on!
Tea2025 wrote:
One of my favorites is that he told me “his kids were leaving Oregon (Josh was committed there after Jaxson transferred in) because they’re bringing in Virginia Tech’s coach, Ben Thomas. He doesn’t know how to coach and makes his mid-d guys run cross country.” The next year or so, Hocker and Teare were tearing up the NCAA under Thomas.
The thing that bothers me the most is the Hoeys will say “it’s God’s plan” when they leave programs. No— THEY’RE the problem. Josh is so talented but stuck under dad’s control. Here are all of the programs they’ve left: Malvern Prep, Downingtown West, Shanahan, Penn State, Oregon, Tennessee (decommitted), Lee LeBadie, Terrance Mahon, Matt Centrowitz, Sr., Tommy Nohilly, Rena Reiner, Justin Rinaldi (plus, these are just the ones we know about. The father begged Marcus O’Sullivan to coach them, and he said no).
They’re the Ball Family of track, and that might even be an insult to Lamelo & co.
POST OF THE YEAR!!! I learned so much. Should have done it under a registered name and I'd send you a free shirt.
Assuming this is true, does the dad realize how little he knows about the sport. Like you totally trash Ben Thomas and he coaches Cole Hocker to two of the greatest accomplishments in US distance history.
Look not appreciating Thomas is a forgivably mistake I guess - I mean Nike/ORegon fired him - but not learning from that mistake is absurd.
Please tell us more about O'Sullivan turning them down. I hadn't heard that. Smart man. When was that?
funruns wrote:
not sure why he did this especially after having such an amazing season. He likely just raced too much and that was why he failed in the end - he also went out way too fast the first lap at USAs. Maybe there were just some disagreements
He (Hoey) didn't do it. Rinaldi was the one that reached his breaking point and said enough is enough.
And as I said earlier and others have alluded to (including the quite heavy "emotionally abusive" post from the dude who said he worked in a sports store they used to go to), it wasn't even really Josh that was the issue.
The reasons why guys like Fran Hoey make millions and millions of dollars are all the same. Some positive, unfortunately many negative. And when it's not just just a few million (which realistically is all you really need to be happy in life) and it's getting into the hundreds of, the only way you are doing that is with a borderline psychotic and insatiable drive fueled by greed, excess, the dopamine of success.
Josh is sadly just caught in the middle of all of this. He can't tell his dad to stay out of it because his dad has created this "I'm the reason you have all this to begin with anyway" dynamic. Fran Hoey is just living vicariously through his kid - the entire family are/were runners, it's all kind of covertly toxic. I feel bad for Josh. I bet he is deep down inside secretly devastated about this, but don't worry, Dad will "somehow" make it right (throw money at the next guy).
rojo wrote:
POST OF THE YEAR!!! I learned so much. Should have done it under a registered name and I'd send you a free shirt.
Assuming this is true, does the dad realize how little he knows about the sport. Like you totally trash Ben Thomas and he coaches Cole Hocker to two of the greatest accomplishments in US distance history.
Look not appreciating Thomas is a forgivably mistake I guess - I mean Nike/ORegon fired him - but not learning from that mistake is absurd.
Please tell us more about O'Sullivan turning them down. I hadn't heard that. Smart man. When was that?
Don't be such an infidel Rojo.... :D
Dare I say this is one of rojo’s finest comments
True polar opposite matches - this is not the one I would have expected to fall apart: Mu / Kersee and Hoey / Rinaldi.
This quoted post has been removed.
Rinaldi never has taken that attitude before so I would be very surprised if he started now. He's always appeared to be very honest, straight forward and transparent to me.
Unless he has very good reasons, this is a huge mistake. To me, JR is the best in the business and the results back that up. Foolish of Hoey to do this. I don’t see him pring again or being a medal threat. Just pure stupidity.
Peach Pit wrote:
***Off topic criticism which we are taking care off**
Glad it seems like they’re on good terms, and hopefully I’m completely wrong, but this seems like a horrible move to me. It looks like Hoey managed to finally stay healthy for a couple years and realized his potential under Rinaldi, and now he’s going back to what he did under 5 coaches in 5 years, which was run too hard and get injured. Especially hearing that he overcooked himself in his last workout before USAs of his own accord, running 48-47-49 instead of 3x48.5 like his coach told him, it makes me think this is a bad decision for him.
Again, I like Hoey and I hope I’m wrong. And if there’s any time to take a chance on his own, it’s 2026 since there’s no WC. I just have a bad feeling he’s gonna lose his whole outdoor season, or regress back to his 1:47 times.
# x 50 - 51 might have been fine too...
He may as well just be self coached at this point or let his Dad do it since he seems to have all the answers. Even I wouldn’t take him on at this point, and I’m a nobody.
What is funny is we talk about dear Josh and Papa Hoey like he is still 17, he turns 26 this weekend.
26 is OLD, I can’t imagine having a parent still pull the strings and call the shots at that age.
I get it, Papa is rich. Bro you run 1:42!!!! Make your own money now.
CopperRunner wrote:
LRC reply. He can't go to Mike Smith's group. They are a Nike group and Hoey is with adidas. Smith was allowed to continue to coach his non-Nike athletes until their current contracts are up, he isn't allowed to pick up non-Nike athletes.
Good note, thank you! I guess I must be out of the loop, I didn’t know Smith was exclusively Nike now,
The problem may be psycjological. On the surface it looks like disagreement about whether or not to take time off and train more. But what motivates the overeagerness of the athlete may include anxiety about going backwards after the upward trajectory like is currently the case. Also the more is better trap, but behind it may also be the realisation time is running out, certain wildest dreams were already realised. Burnout and overtraining may already be messing with his mind and results. The big one at WC outdoor failed. Add to that ahlete's personality type and any potential underlying issues and family dynamics and the assistance of a sports psychologist seems part of a solution..Of course one must want to be helped and understand why one is.wrong. If an athlete cannot or will not see that changiing coaches or going at it alone won't help, there's nothing to be done. At best a good start to the next season will go south soon enough. I may be wrong here but it's what came to mind.
hmm suss wrote:
When you're all in, and have every resource, but stagnate... This is exactly the type of situation that pushes people to PEDs. The entire thing screams of "win at all costs". The indoor title and the breakout year wasn't enough, they want outdoor champ, Olympic medals etc. etc....
Maybe. I can imagine Brazier like this, sitting on the couch, seeing Hoppel run 1:41 — that was the last straw! It got him out of his mental funk, eventually he was back on the track in March, and heavily indulging in whatever sauce(s) available to get back on top fast. As others have said, lots of hypocrisy. Hopefully Kid Cooper will continue to improve and derail the frauds, and that includes Wanyonyi and the big black bag of Berardelli.