You got it. I passed hundreds of people 'grinding'. Only 1 passed me.
People take on these ultra-y challenges thinking about how they have to "conserve, conserve, conserve" without actually knowing what their bodies can do or training them up to be a competitor.
I will 100% admit people like Killian Jornet is fitter than I am and could beat me any day of the week. But I will 100% stand with OP that quite a few of these "runners" are not trying at all.
Who cares how fast anyone else goes? If the race has a cut-off time sure they probably want to aim for finishing before the course closes, but who gives a $hi+ what someone else's pace is? Did passing 4 of them ruin your 50k attempt?
You got it. I passed hundreds of people 'grinding'. Only 1 passed me.
People take on these ultra-y challenges thinking about how they have to "conserve, conserve, conserve" without actually knowing what their bodies can do or training them up to be a competitor.
I will 100% admit people like Killian Jornet is fitter than I am and could beat me any day of the week. But I will 100% stand with OP that quite a few of these "runners" are not trying at all.
I don't really think that's any different than road races. I don't think this is endemic to ultrarunning, but just how humans work.
And how do you know they're not trying? Because of their pace? For some, taking on these challenges is about how far they can go, not how fast they can do it. Lots of people have lots of different motivations and goals. Looking down on them for that seems like unkind thing to do.
I remember watching a video where an ultra runner was holding a Go Pro and filming his race.
At one point, nearly 300km after the start, he was slowly walking and speaking like if he was completely exhausted and empty and he sees behind him two mid aged lady who were hiking, not taking part in the race, with hiking shoes and a huge backpack each. He stepped aside and they passed him quickly because he was slowing them down.
Who cares? I mean, really, who cares? How does it affect you that others are slow? I see some really bad golfers on the course but I would never think to say they aren't golfers because they can't shoot par or even bogey golf. Doesn't affect me in any way that others aren't elite at something they love doing.
It degrades the sport and dishonors the memory of Philippides.
If you look at this in the way it seems that you are I think you can make the point that the sport in general has been degrading for years at all off track events, not just ultras at least if by degrading you mean the growth in numbers of people who aren't competing at all but are there for the experience. I've talked to people who had run a marathon earlier in the day or on the next day who didn't know their time or place. You can do that with people who ran 5 and 10 km races too. And I think this group has grown enormously.
But I don't blame those people for degrading the sport if that's what you want to call it.. I'm more inclined to blame race directors who have allowed races to become events more than they are competitive events, who only really measure of how successful their event is by how large a field they got.
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It’s time someone said it. Some of these slower ultramarathon “runners” are shuffling at so egregiously slow of a pace that they may as well be hiking. If you’re carrying walking poles to get you across the terrain while logging 30 minute miles you’re on an endurance hike, not “running an ultramarathon”.
These influencer types are even worse, lugging essentially a ruck sack stocked full of Instagram sponsored gels and electrolyte mixes while walk-jogging 24+ hours to complete a 50 miler. This is a far cry from jogging a race at a steady pace while wearing a hydration vest and an accessory belt for sustenance.
The Bandera 50k has a cutoff time of 24.5 hours. Meaning you could complete this “race” going just over 2km per hour. If you’re going that slow you’re hiking. The term “running” in ultramarathons is stretched to an extreme. Very few outside of the elite upper echelon of ultramarathoners are actually running them. Most are jogging. But this bottom tier of ultra “runners” are slogging through the miles at so slow of a pace that it’s comical to even hear them say they “ran an ultramarathon”. If you’re not moving any faster than the average Stepford wife out pushing the stroller around the subdivision you’re on an endurance hike.
The exact same thing can be said for your neighborhood 10k and especially the marathon. Let them have fun and enjoy it. Why does it bother you? I think that is the more interesting question. I'm curious: have you done a 50 miler? 100 miler?
When joggers and such set their sights on a marathon, or a distance that is totally irrelevant to stretching their capabilities, they miss the real joy of any achievment.
At some stage, no matter who you are, a challenge is a glorified hike. People get too tied up in event names instead of the real purpose. Walking or jogging a marathon is not a challenge. Reading Tolstoy is a challenge for the non-intellectual, and arguably gaining the same benefits.
If you are runner, find a distance that suits your body aand skills, and stretch it. Fatigue is not a measure of challenge.
Though things like the London Marathon would go out of businesss
It degrades the sport and dishonors the memory of Philippides.
If you look at this in the way it seems that you are I think you can make the point that the sport in general has been degrading for years at all off track events, not just ultras at least if by degrading you mean the growth in numbers of people who aren't competing at all but are there for the experience. I've talked to people who had run a marathon earlier in the day or on the next day who didn't know their time or place. You can do that with people who ran 5 and 10 km races too. And I think this group has grown enormously.
But I don't blame those people for degrading the sport if that's what you want to call it.. I'm more inclined to blame race directors who have allowed races to become events more than they are competitive events, who only really measure of how successful their event is by how large a field they got.
I fully agree. To be honest and fair and not trolly, I dont think its a bad thing. A larger field means often more and better events. There isnt a lack of races to part take in due to this and there are also smaller events with a more competetive athmosfesr if that is what one likes. With that said, there is a grain of sincerity in when I say the the movement from competition to spectacle degrades the sport. I feel that if the runners/hikers dont attempt to train their best, with a generous time budhet to train with, then they are disrespecting the sport to an extent. I genuinly think this but try to take the feeling rather lightly.
To answer OP:s question: the dicitomy between running and hiking is false. Hiking is just very slow running.
I'll offer some perspective. I did the Pikes Peak Ascent race ( a smidge over a half-marathon that gains almost 8000' of gain). The traditional rule of thumb as I understand it is you add 30 minutes to your flat marathon time to estimate your finishing time for the Ascent (which I found to be accurate in my case). Let's say you can run a 2:30 (~5:43 pace) marathon. Assuming you are coming from a low altitude area, you would be shooting for a 3:00 ascent time (~13:32 pace). This is essentially a mixture of running and fast (or power) hiking. In my opinion, while the course certainly has some elevation gain, it's the altitude (especially around A-frame and above) that obliterates you. Point is, yeah I would expect an aerobically fit and altitude trained runner to do well at this trail race, but even a very solid runner will probably have to hike at times.
From the book The Pursuit of Endurance by Jennifer Pharr Davis:
Fast is fast, endurance is endurance. Perhaps athletes got too hung up on identifying themselves as either hikers or runners? Perhaps we all get too caught up in which category of exercise we ascribe to. At the end of the day, we're all just movers - and the movement is more important than the mechanics.
It’s time someone said it. Some of these slower ultramarathon “runners” are shuffling at so egregiously slow of a pace that they may as well be hiking. If you’re carrying walking poles to get you across the terrain while logging 30 minute miles you’re on an endurance hike, not “running an ultramarathon”.
These influencer types are even worse, lugging essentially a ruck sack stocked full of Instagram sponsored gels and electrolyte mixes while walk-jogging 24+ hours to complete a 50 miler. This is a far cry from jogging a race at a steady pace while wearing a hydration vest and an accessory belt for sustenance.
The Bandera 50k has a cutoff time of 24.5 hours. Meaning you could complete this “race” going just over 2km per hour. If you’re going that slow you’re hiking. The term “running” in ultramarathons is stretched to an extreme. Very few outside of the elite upper echelon of ultramarathoners are actually running them. Most are jogging. But this bottom tier of ultra “runners” are slogging through the miles at so slow of a pace that it’s comical to even hear them say they “ran an ultramarathon”. If you’re not moving any faster than the average Stepford wife out pushing the stroller around the subdivision you’re on an endurance hike.
What's your point? How does this affect you? Seriously, how does this affect you?
It’s time someone said it. Some of these slower ultramarathon “runners” are shuffling at so egregiously slow of a pace that they may as well be hiking. If you’re carrying walking poles to get you across the terrain while logging 30 minute miles you’re on an endurance hike, not “running an ultramarathon”.
These influencer types are even worse, lugging essentially a ruck sack stocked full of Instagram sponsored gels and electrolyte mixes while walk-jogging 24+ hours to complete a 50 miler. This is a far cry from jogging a race at a steady pace while wearing a hydration vest and an accessory belt for sustenance.
The Bandera 50k has a cutoff time of 24.5 hours. Meaning you could complete this “race” going just over 2km per hour. If you’re going that slow you’re hiking. The term “running” in ultramarathons is stretched to an extreme. Very few outside of the elite upper echelon of ultramarathoners are actually running them. Most are jogging. But this bottom tier of ultra “runners” are slogging through the miles at so slow of a pace that it’s comical to even hear them say they “ran an ultramarathon”. If you’re not moving any faster than the average Stepford wife out pushing the stroller around the subdivision you’re on an endurance hike.
What's your point? How does this affect you? Seriously, how does this affect you?
For me it kind of mattered that there was widespread cheating going on in the races and nobody really cared including the race directors.
I only did three. The first one I didn’t really care too much to be honest. There was running up a mountain, technical trail running, and river running. All of which I am terrible at so I left my expectations at the starting line and it was fun despite the obvious cheating happening. I was out there for 6 hours and ran most of it when I wasn’t falling all over the place.
The second one was all on the road. They had volunteers keeping track. No cheating there.
The third one I ran was a trail race that I wanted to place in and was billed to be a race with good prizes. There were multiple people cutting the course. The race directors did not care nor did most of the runners. So I walked off without completing it because I figured it really wasn’t worth getting my legs sore for no reason.
After, I started looking for ultra races that were competitive and serious. Emails to race directors resulted in a lot of confusion on their part about why they should bother keeping track of where everyone was in the race.
In the end I concluded that these were just events of shared experiences for this community. Actually some of them don’t train at all. They just go from race to race. That was 10 years ago.
All of this is ok, but if you’re the competitive type this definitely does have an effect on you. It wasn’t what I was expecting it to be. A race is a race no matter how slow or fast but people running all different distances… I wasn’t going to pay for that.
I can’t tell you if that has changed or not but that was what it was like 10 years ago. It wasn’t for me.