I'm not the expert that many here are on track and athletes, and I don't post much. I also don't buy into the endless claims I see here of doping. But there is no way you can't be suspicious of this Koech guy. The minimal record on Koech on World Athletics and the staggering improvement. The online pics in a Google search do not show a guy who looks 18. The ease of his wins over world class fields in 3:27 and 3:28. He looked like he could run sub-3:26 today. Would it surprise anyone if he did at his next meet? It all looks incredibly suspicious to my untrained eye.
Where do you get the sub-3:26 from? He closed better vs Habz in Paris and his time was better. Today, Kerr rigged up so his 13.4 with a celebration looks like a sub-13 last 100. He is backing up his performances, but there was nothing crazy statistically/aesthetically about the win.
I think, in context, it's clear where I got sub 3:26 from.
Unlike you, I think Koech's statistics on his World Athletics page are "crazy" and therefore suspicious.
Not sure what you mean by "aesthetically" (or by "Kerr rigged up"), but it looked visually very odd to me when an alleged 18 year old with an 800 PR of 1:47 was so confident he could beat last year's Olympic silver medalist, who is known for his kick, that he eased up 25 meters from the line to cross in 3:28. Maybe he's just a wild eyed innocent and doesn't know who he's running against, or maybe he knows something most observer's suspect.
Let us be realistic: The public will not longer buy these enhanced games in disguise. WA better sort it out soon. Country bans, real hard core testing of the elites as well as the second Level.
over and over again, people overestimate how much a celebration slows a runner down. once the momentum in the legs is going, waving the arms or doing whatever with the celebrating isn't slowing you down much. no doubt it's less than half a second in today's case. maybe a tenth or two. he started celebrating around 10-12 meters before the line
for reference, that curved line around which he starts his celebration is 9 meters from the finish
I think, in context, it's clear where I got sub 3:26 from.
Unlike you, I think Koech's statistics on his World Athletics page are "crazy" and therefore suspicious.
Not sure what you mean by "aesthetically" (or by "Kerr rigged up"), but it looked visually very odd to me when an alleged 18 year old with an 800 PR of 1:47 was so confident he could beat last year's Olympic silver medalist, who is known for his kick, that he eased up 25 meters from the line to cross in 3:28. Maybe he's just a wild eyed innocent and doesn't know who he's running against, or maybe he knows something most observer's suspect.
I don’t. He ran 2.8 seconds slower than a sub-3:26. I think Koech running 3:27 is pretty crazy and never would say differently. I also bet he’s 19-20 as he graduated HS in 2024, but that’s not that important to me.
Kerr rigged up as in he ran slower the last 100 than the 100 before. In the Olympics, Kerr did this slightly as well but still his last 100 was faster there than today in a race a second slower. Kerr is known for his kick but it wasn’t there today. That isn’t “shocking” as in 2023 that last 200 surfaced in Budapest after being missing on the DL circuit. We’ve seen the same from Hocker, these guys are different when peaked.
The idea that Koech is doping because he shouldn’t know that he was going to win is a bit odd. Are you saying only doped athletes would consider celebrating when beating a credentialed runner - I don’t quite get it. He’s 2 seconds from the finish (more like 10m) and the other runner is fading, that’s when nearly every athlete is confident and celebrates.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
over and over again, people overestimate how much a celebration slows a runner down. once the momentum in the legs is going, waving the arms or doing whatever with the celebrating isn't slowing you down much. no doubt it's less than half a second in today's case. maybe a tenth or two. he started celebrating around 10-12 meters before the line
for reference, that curved line around which he starts his celebration is 9 meters from the finish
I think most people are annoyed that he had the unmitigated temerity to celebrate before crossing the line against a world class field given there's a 99.97% chance he's hitting the juice harder than the late Rich Piana. Like, if you're going to cheat, at least have the gumption to act surprised or tired when winning a diamond league against the last two world champions.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
over and over again, people overestimate how much a celebration slows a runner down. once the momentum in the legs is going, waving the arms or doing whatever with the celebrating isn't slowing you down much. no doubt it's less than half a second in today's case. maybe a tenth or two. he started celebrating around 10-12 meters before the line
for reference, that curved line around which he starts his celebration is 9 meters from the finish
I think most people are annoyed that he had the unmitigated temerity to celebrate before crossing the line against a world class field given there's a 99.97% chance he's hitting the juice harder than the late Rich Piana. Like, if you're going to cheat, at least have the gumption to act surprised or tired when winning a diamond league against the last two world champs.
You have already told us that you could tell he was doping because he made you think of Katir. Later you said it was because of who he is affiliated with and that he came out of nowhere to be world class. And now you are telling us how annoyed you are at his celebrating his win, when you already know he is cheating, and then you just come up with all kinds of reasons to support your conviction.
I think most people are annoyed that he had the unmitigated temerity to celebrate before crossing the line against a world class field given there's a 99.97% chance he's hitting the juice harder than the late Rich Piana. Like, if you're going to cheat, at least have the gumption to act surprised or tired when winning a diamond league against the last two world champs.
You have already told us that you could tell he was doping because he made you think of Katir. Later you said it was because of who he is affiliated with and that he came out of nowhere to be world class. And now you are telling us how annoyed you are at his celebrating his win, when you already know he is cheating, and then you just come up with all kinds of reasons to support your conviction.
Thanks for the recap. I must remember to bookmark this thread for when the utterly inevitable ban happens and you crawl back to apologise.
Why is it utterly depressing to watch? You should rather be proud that you are smarter than everyone else, well smarter than everyone except the other 50 experts here, who know who is doping just by looking at them. I hope you are monetizing your great talent.
It doesn't take a MENSA level mind to realise that runners who come out of nowhere and start running all-time performances who have established ties to doped athletes/agents are going to get banned.
Yes. It is very suspicious improvement. At the same time you gotta be considered innocent as long as you pass your doping tests.
Time will tell. Maybe he will be a generational talent with longevity or maybe he won't ever be on this level again in future seasons (would be suspicious) or maybe he will glow in a test and will be banned
You have already told us that you could tell he was doping because he made you think of Katir. Later you said it was because of who he is affiliated with and that he came out of nowhere to be world class. And now you are telling us how annoyed you are at his celebrating his win, when you already know he is cheating, and then you just come up with all kinds of reasons to support your conviction.
Thanks for the recap. I must remember to bookmark this thread for when the utterly inevitable ban happens and you crawl back to apologise.
What would the apology look like? I have never asserted that Koech is clean. I would guess he is doping. It is your analysis that I question, not your conclusion.
Kerr, like Hocker, never performs well in diamond leagues. Whether they are a WC or Olympic Champion has no bearing on how they will perform in a diamond league. They simply suck in these meets.
thing is, Kerr didn't really suck in this meet. It's a 3:29 low. Actually it's his second best time. Even in his WC win, it's 3:29.38.
Nice to see Kerr get humbled in his slicked back hair and oversized sunglasses.
Ollie is not at this level anymore, man needs to make plans for the future cause ain’t gonna be bringing in pay checks for long. Him and Stewie are past it now, lads on inside running living in the past saying how stewie is one of the best in the world and he’ll get that form back m -crazy- like whoever is letting them into these meets
Ollie Hoare dead last again (not counting runners who fell) is it physical or mental or a combination of both?
I feel sorry for Hoare, I really do. In every pro athletes careers there are ups and downs from form, to health, to other social factors (within training group, national relevance etc) and you kind of have hope to hope that they don't all happen at once because it can be such a brutal and lonely sport when it comes to dealing with it.
He came off that epic Commonwealth Games win and I think was just burnt out and his form suffered. He get's hurt as Ritzenheins training "philosophy" has ultimately no imagination and is now showing that it destroys more of these kids than it creates long term growth and success. He goes from being the main honcho in the OAC group to not almost overnight and then Myers comes along and becomes the next big focus of attention in Australia.
This all seems to happen in a space of 3-4 months. He compounds it all with these strange "cry for help" social media posts about his training etc - that to me is a young dude just struggling to hold it together. He's now lost all confidence (what little that was left) and honestly is only getting into these races now because Flynn is his agent and of course Ray has massive clout on the circuit and ability to still get him in. But at 28 and his form and confidence deserting him it's hard to see how he get's out of this and I've got no doubts he's a good guy. It's just a damn hard sport when things go wrong.
over and over again, people overestimate how much a celebration slows a runner down. once the momentum in the legs is going, waving the arms or doing whatever with the celebrating isn't slowing you down much. no doubt it's less than half a second in today's case. maybe a tenth or two. he started celebrating around 10-12 meters before the line
for reference, that curved line around which he starts his celebration is 9 meters from the finish
He started slowing up significantly at the first of two curved lines, so like I said 20-25 meters out. Never glanced around, somehow knew he had it in the bag against Kerr, Mills, Wightman, etc., so much so that he gave up around a second in a 3:28 easy win.
I think, in context, it's clear where I got sub 3:26 from.
Unlike you, I think Koech's statistics on his World Athletics page are "crazy" and therefore suspicious.
Not sure what you mean by "aesthetically" (or by "Kerr rigged up"), but it looked visually very odd to me when an alleged 18 year old with an 800 PR of 1:47 was so confident he could beat last year's Olympic silver medalist, who is known for his kick, that he eased up 25 meters from the line to cross in 3:28. Maybe he's just a wild eyed innocent and doesn't know who he's running against, or maybe he knows something most observer's suspect.
I don’t. He ran 2.8 seconds slower than a sub-3:26. I think Koech running 3:27 is pretty crazy and never would say differently. I also bet he’s 19-20 as he graduated HS in 2024, but that’s not that important to me.
Kerr rigged up as in he ran slower the last 100 than the 100 before. In the Olympics, Kerr did this slightly as well but still his last 100 was faster there than today in a race a second slower. Kerr is known for his kick but it wasn’t there today. That isn’t “shocking” as in 2023 that last 200 surfaced in Budapest after being missing on the DL circuit. We’ve seen the same from Hocker, these guys are different when peaked.
The idea that Koech is doping because he shouldn’t know that he was going to win is a bit odd. Are you saying only doped athletes would consider celebrating when beating a credentialed runner - I don’t quite get it. He’s 2 seconds from the finish (more like 10m) and the other runner is fading, that’s when nearly every athlete is confident and celebrates.
Trying to get people’s attention off the question of (obvious) doping by concentrating on typical victory celebrations is ridiculous. What is strange is the way many of the athletes under suspicion maintain peaks for inordinate periods of time.
People should concentrate on what’s behind athletes claiming to be teens who literally come of nowhere while being guided by a coach known to have doped his athletes. That situation has rightfully raised eyebrows.
Berardelli and crew probaly went through a crowd of runners before finding their latest high-responding charge in Koech.
Rank Nat Name Time 1 KEN KOECH Phanuel Kipkosgei 3:28.82 MR 2 GBR KERR Josh 3:29.37 SB 3 POR NADER Isaac 3:31.55 4 GBR WIGHTMAN Jake 3:31.58 SB 5 AUS THOMAS Jude 3:32.36 6 GBR GILES Elliot 3:32.51 7 NOR NORDÅS Narve Gilje 3:32.54 8 AUS SPENCER Adam 3:32.88 SB 9 ETH BAREGA Selemon 3:32.93 PB 10 GBR GOURLEY Neil 3:33.69 11 AUS HOARE Oliver 3:34.03 12 GBR MILLS George 4:18.37 13 AUS MYERS Cameron 4:24.03 14 GER FARKEN Robert 4:27.54
99.9% koech doped. kenya should be banned from all international competition.
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