There are some real brainiacs in this thread saying epo not for the marathon, but allows redlining up mountains and only for shorter distances.
Do you actually think 2" to 2"05 is done at aerobic paces. Ffs, did anyone ever watch Kiptum race lol.
Then how do you explain the comparatively slow marathon times from the EPO-era, before the supershoe era?
Marathons pay more now and are more lucrative? Attracting greater talent with people moving to roads at an earlier stage? Also nutrition advances allowing ‘harder’ effort in a marathon?
There are some real brainiacs in this thread saying epo not for the marathon, but allows redlining up mountains and only for shorter distances.
Do you actually think 2" to 2"05 is done at aerobic paces. Ffs, did anyone ever watch Kiptum race lol.
Then how do you explain the comparatively slow marathon times from the EPO-era, before the supershoe era?
What relatively slow times? 2:05 / 2:15? Doesn't look slow to me. Now, 20 years later, with supershoes and Maurten and Bicarb and better training knowledge, it's 2:00 and 2:09.
Then how do you explain the comparatively slow marathon times from the EPO-era, before the supershoe era?
What relatively slow times? 2:05 / 2:15? Doesn't look slow to me. Now, 20 years later, with supershoes and Maurten and Bicarb and better training knowledge, it's 2:00 and 2:09.
Who said "relatively slow" or "slow"?
I have no doubt that supershoes have made a huge impact. Maybe bicarb too. Also races with organized pacemakers.
The question though, from one brainiac, was about "epo for the marathon", and whether "2:00 to 2:05 is done at aerobic pace" (as if "aerobic pace" is the only or most relevant factor in marathons, assuming EPO helps "aerobic pace").
What relatively slow times? 2:05 / 2:15? Doesn't look slow to me. Now, 20 years later, with supershoes and Maurten and Bicarb and better training knowledge, it's 2:00 and 2:09.
Who said "relatively slow" or "slow"?
I have no doubt that supershoes have made a huge impact. Maybe bicarb too. Also races with organized pacemakers.
The question though, from one brainiac, was about "epo for the marathon", and whether "2:00 to 2:05 is done at aerobic pace" (as if "aerobic pace" is the only or most relevant factor in marathons, assuming EPO helps "aerobic pace").
You said "comparatively slow marathon times", and I inquired "What relatively slow times". But I understand - you don't want to explain what you mean. Carry on.
Exactly this, the records from EPO, pre super shoes haven't exactly tumbled.
Epo changed long distance racing. It started with the elites, but trickled into mass availability in regions where testing wasn't happening and the incentives to take it were life changing. That's why we have dominance in one area of the world today. It's a numbers game.
There could be other new drugs/masking techniques at play , I'm sure we'll find out in about a decade when testing catches up.
I have no doubt that supershoes have made a huge impact. Maybe bicarb too. Also races with organized pacemakers.
The question though, from one brainiac, was about "epo for the marathon", and whether "2:00 to 2:05 is done at aerobic pace" (as if "aerobic pace" is the only or most relevant factor in marathons, assuming EPO helps "aerobic pace").
You said "comparatively slow marathon times", and I inquired "What relatively slow times". But I understand - you don't want to explain what you mean. Carry on.
I understand. You are the one who said "relatively slow" and "slow".
I said "the comparatively slow marathon times from the EPO-era, before the supershoe era". What is unclear? What more explanation do you need? I mean to compare the best times before supershoes with the best times after supershoes, and explain the sources of the difference.
How about picking a clear date, like Jan. 1st, 2018 for comparison purposes? If "EPO is for the marathon", because it is not "done at aerobic paces (?)", why are the time significantly faster in the supershoe era?
Exactly this, the records from EPO, pre super shoes haven't exactly tumbled.
Epo changed long distance racing. It started with the elites, but trickled into mass availability in regions where testing wasn't happening and the incentives to take it were life changing. That's why we have dominance in one area of the world today. It's a numbers game.
There could be other new drugs/masking techniques at play , I'm sure we'll find out in about a decade when testing catches up.
Seriously?
For the men, an already mature record of 2:02:57 tumbled more than 2 minutes, to 2:00:35. The then #1 Dennis Kimetto is now #12.
For the women, the record fell more than 5 minutes from 2:15:25 to 2:09:56. 2:15:25 (and even sub-2:18) was untouchable for so long. Now it looks comparatively weak. The then #1 Paula has dropped to #6, and #2 Mary Keitany to #19.
EPO changed distance racing? If anything, the marathon seems like the counter-example for EPO. Nothing happened at the top until 1998 when no EPO testing existed. Once EPO tests were introduced, times started dropping, and as EPO tests kept improving, times started dropping even faster. Times started dropping with Paul Tergat and Haile Gebrselassi -- two seasoned athletes with long careers who did not need "life changing incentives".
It is a similar story for the women, with some delays due to lack of maturity of the event and a lack of critical mass needed for pacing/drafting to really fast times. Times only started dropping recently, with the introduction of supershoes, long after EPO and EPO-testing.
I hope more samples come back positive, even if they come back positive for HCTZ. Because I want there to be more hearings, more discovery process, more litigation, so that we can hopefully get closer to the truth of what happened.
EPO with HGH and testosterone is incredibly powerful, even microdosing.
& the effects last long after the drugs have been pissed away.
For the testosterone, Nandrolone would be too easy to detect, so expect something like Tetrahydrogestrinone or newer with a masking agent and full body shave/short hair to hide the evidence.
In cycling, something not yet detectable is being used by 2 to 5 riders. It’s bloody obvious, but nobody knows what it is or how to test for it. Maybe she mis-dosed this mystery substance and tried to hide it with a proportional dose of masking agent?
EPO + anabolic steroids/testosterone has been the traditional stack for endurance athletes for decades: