She ran 2:03 a week ago. 2:00 is much better than 2:03.
Obviously you didn't watch the 800 at Pre. Athing Mu ran 2:03 at Pre because she ran a lot of the race in lane 2 and then jogged the last 50 meters. She did NOT improve 3 seconds in fitness from last week to this week. She barely improved her fitness at all.
This is more my take.
It looked better but this field wasn't as strong and she didn't completely give up at the end.
Wow. Just getting in on the Jonathan and Malmo feud. I'm siding with Jonathan. His take was perfectly reasonable.
Just because Malmo improved a ton, doesn't mean Jon's take isn't reasonable. One thing I wondered whether was Pre was just a terrible race a one-off for Athing and she'd be like 1:58 Athing Mu.
That clearly isn't the case.
Could she make Worlds? Of course. She's has the greatest mix of tools of any 800m runner EVER.
That's why it's so shocking to see her run 2:00.
But somehow Nia Akins and Michaela Rose were behind her which shows anything can happen in 3 weeks.
And I don't think I should only be allowed to comment on Athing Mu because I went from 28:54 to 28:06 in like 6 weeks. Just because athletes can improve a lot doesn't mean you can't call out a bad race or you can't give an opinion without speaking to the athlete. That's what Jon did. I do like she was aggressive and if for whatever reason she just can't push it in training, then this will help her for USAS, but in the past we never saw her likes this. She ran faster in her sleep.
During the month of June in 1972, Lasse Viren ran 4 5000m races:
1. 14:45 3rd
2. 13:49 1st
3. 13:54 1st
4. 13:37 2nd
In July 1972, Lasse ran 4 more 5000m races:
1. 13:51 3rd
2. 13:44 2nd
3. 13:33 2nd
4. 13:19 1st
That fall, Lasse won Gold at 5000m and 10000m. As Malmo says, maybe Athing Mu knows what is going on more than the posters here. I respect Gault’s and Thoughtsleader’s opinions. I don’t care if they ran super fast or not. But Malmo has some insight into this, at least insofar as the athlete may have a plan, and maybe the athlete and her coach don’t give a rat’s ass about message board posters’ hysteria. We shall see.
Going to the lead meant she looked a lot better. That's her mental struggle. I didn't really care so much about the remainder, after she was being true to herself.
Mu looks to be a month short and vulnerable to a late cavalry charge. Other Americans will no longer be intimidated. Mu actually invited more traffic problems via her misadventure last year.
It's not clear to me who will establish the pace at 800 trials. Ajee Wilson thinks she's no longer capable of that. Micaela Rose is all over the place. Mu would like to run it that way but lacks fitness and confidence.
Wiley is the known quantity in that she'll move outside near the bell and establish good position. Then it's a matter of whether she patiently waits until 200 remaining, like the Monaco 1000, or gets rank on the backstretch and falters late.
Roisin Willis is seldom out of the top 3 when she's in a good frame. That stalker style is plug and play.
During the month of June in 1972, Lasse Viren ran 4 5000m races:
1. 14:45 3rd
2. 13:49 1st
3. 13:54 1st
4. 13:37 2nd
In July 1972, Lasse ran 4 more 5000m races:
1. 13:51 3rd
2. 13:44 2nd
3. 13:33 2nd
4. 13:19 1st
That fall, Lasse won Gold at 5000m and 10000m. As Malmo says, maybe Athing Mu knows what is going on more than the posters here. I respect Gault’s and Thoughtsleader’s opinions. I don’t care if they ran super fast or not. But Malmo has some insight into this, at least insofar as the athlete may have a plan, and maybe the athlete and her coach don’t give a rat’s ass about message board posters’ hysteria. We shall see.
You do know how Viren suddenly speeded up, don't you? Can't think of a worse example.
2 flat and change ranks her late 30's in the USA. I would say it's unlikely she makes the team and it's not entirely certain she even runs given Kersee athlete's predisposition to cancel. Nike may assert themselves contract wise though.
Why all the talk of potential progression in the coming weeks, and why not "how the hell is she still this far off her best having been apparently healthy and training consistently all winter long?".
It's scandalous that someone with this level of talent is so far off her best for no reason whatsoever. If she does miraculously appear in 1.57 form in a few weeks time then you'd have to ask what the hell happened that she was so far off it in the build up.
If she'd been sidelined for months with an injury, then this kind of "will she be ready in time" talk would make sense. But it's not the cases and that's the bigger issue here.
Yeah, I was thinking about this. Everyone here is implicitly assuming that Mu's a 59.5/1:54 talent who hasn't been able to reach peak fitness for some reason (mental and/or physical)... but what if both of those assumptions are wrong?
Maybe she doesn't have that 49.5 speed anymore due to age/injury/Kersee, so her peak fitness level is 1:57. If that's the case, this race makes a lot more sense!
Obviously you didn't watch the 800 at Pre. Athing Mu ran 2:03 at Pre because she ran a lot of the race in lane 2 and then jogged the last 50 meters. She did NOT improve 3 seconds in fitness from last week to this week. She barely improved her fitness at all.
This is more my take.
It looked better but this field wasn't as strong and she didn't completely give up at the end.
Wow. Just getting in on the Jonathan and Malmo feud. I'm siding with Jonathan. His take was perfectly reasonable.
Just because Malmo improved a ton, doesn't mean Jon's take isn't reasonable. One thing I wondered whether was Pre was just a terrible race a one-off for Athing and she'd be like 1:58 Athing Mu.
That clearly isn't the case.
Could she make Worlds? Of course. She's has the greatest mix of tools of any 800m runner EVER.
That's why it's so shocking to see her run 2:00.
But somehow Nia Akins and Michaela Rose were behind her which shows anything can happen in 3 weeks.
And I don't think I should only be allowed to comment on Athing Mu because I went from 28:54 to 28:06 in like 6 weeks. Just because athletes can improve a lot doesn't mean you can't call out a bad race or you can't give an opinion without speaking to the athlete. That's what Jon did. I do like she was aggressive and if for whatever reason she just can't push it in training, then this will help her for USAS, but in the past we never saw her likes this. She ran faster in her sleep.
I don't know enough about Rose, but Akins bounces around poor and good results. I'm more confident that Akins would run 1:58 in her next race than Mu, just because that's what Akins has been doing for two years. She can have problems getting into the right head space to run her best. With Athing, I think there's one of two things going on:
1. It's like she's starting from scratch. Maybe she took a lot of time off last year and she's taking time to regain her fitness and sharpness.
2. She's lost the motivation that took her to two global titles.
If it's the latter, then she's on real trouble. I can understand it. She's won everything she can in the 800 and has the national record. The world record is out of reach, and she knows it, we all know it so that isn't going to be a motivation. What's left for her? Kersee won't let her go to the 400 because it might make things uncomfortable with his prize athlete. That leaves Mu I'm a difficult spot. No prizes left to chase.
To sum up some of the most important points made on this and other Athing Mu threads: Athing Mu-Nicolayev (MuNi) is one of the most talented athletes ever in the history of track & field athletics MuNi’s problems are motivational, and underperforming feeds into this syndrome MuNi doesn’t like to race MuNi was sick / injured / depressed for an indeterminate time – could not train or race She has now been training at least since early spring, but MuNi skips practice MuNi complains during workouts MuNi is not allowed to race 400m (Kersee / SML) which might help her race her event (800m), and has been training for over-distance (1500m – 5000m) MuNi trains alone, unlike when at A&M A few intensive training sessions might sharpen her significantly ahead of USAT&F but, given the above factors, many posters think this is unlikely to happen.
This post was edited 47 seconds after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Added "this and other threads"
During the month of June in 1972, Lasse Viren ran 4 5000m races:
1. 14:45 3rd
2. 13:49 1st
3. 13:54 1st
4. 13:37 2nd
In July 1972, Lasse ran 4 more 5000m races:
1. 13:51 3rd
2. 13:44 2nd
3. 13:33 2nd
4. 13:19 1st
That fall, Lasse won Gold at 5000m and 10000m. As Malmo says, maybe Athing Mu knows what is going on more than the posters here. I respect Gault’s and Thoughtsleader’s opinions. I don’t care if they ran super fast or not. But Malmo has some insight into this, at least insofar as the athlete may have a plan, and maybe the athlete and her coach don’t give a rat’s ass about message board posters’ hysteria. We shall see.
You do know how Viren suddenly speeded up, don't you? Can't think of a worse example.
YOU of course have no idea what you’re talking about. Of course that won’t stop you, as you don’t know who is doping now, you certainly don’t know who was doing it 53 years ago.
Hell yeah I’d be worried. Emmanuel Korir had a similar 2023 opening with injuries and a late start to the season and I didn’t think he’d have any chance in Budapest (and he didn’t).
Yes of course but that is not what I asked. I agree there is great cause for concern but there is also reason for hope, even if the ratio is 80/20.
Despite the fact that’s I think her talent level is close to Rudisha, her actually career so far has been much closer to Korir
Positives and negatives from that one for Athing Mu-Nikolayev.
I'll start with the negatives: She's not in shape right now. When Maloney separated on the second lap, that is a move that prime Athing Mu would have closed with ease. She's just not fit enough to do so right now.
2:00.42 three weeks out from USAs is not good. Losing to Rachel Gearing, McKenna Keegan, Veronica Hargrave, and three weeks out from USAs is not good. She didn't have anything in the last 100.
The positives: She wasn't afraid to go out near the front this time. Actually put herself in the race. She's still running extra distance on the turns but this was an improvement from Pre.
She beat Nia Akins and Michaela Rose. Mu-Nikolayev is a complete wildcard right now, but so are some of her biggest rivals at USAs.
She ran three seconds faster than at the Pre Classic. Could she improve by another 2-3 seconds by USAs? Absolutely. And that might be enough to put her on the team.
My other thought is that it's wild that a 23-year-old Olympic/World champion with a 1:54 pb is only running 2:00 right now. I know she had an injury last season, but from what she has said, she is healthy right now and has been training for a while. I don't expect her to run 1:54 every time out but if there haven't been any injuries this year, it's stunning that she is so far off her best.
That last paragraph says it all. For all the Mu apologists out there, this is someone who is still 6 seconds off her pb. That's an eternity in the 800M. If she doesn't get serious about her fitness or her mental game, her career is over.
Positives and negatives from that one for Athing Mu-Nikolayev.
I'll start with the negatives: She's not in shape right now. When Maloney separated on the second lap, that is a move that prime Athing Mu would have closed with ease. She's just not fit enough to do so right now.
2:00.42 three weeks out from USAs is not good. Losing to Rachel Gearing, McKenna Keegan, Veronica Hargrave, and three weeks out from USAs is not good. She didn't have anything in the last 100.
The positives: She wasn't afraid to go out near the front this time. Actually put herself in the race. She's still running extra distance on the turns but this was an improvement from Pre.
She beat Nia Akins and Michaela Rose. Mu-Nikolayev is a complete wildcard right now, but so are some of her biggest rivals at USAs.
She ran three seconds faster than at the Pre Classic. Could she improve by another 2-3 seconds by USAs? Absolutely. And that might be enough to put her on the team.
My other thought is that it's wild that a 23-year-old Olympic/World champion with a 1:54 pb is only running 2:00 right now. I know she had an injury last season, but from what she has said, she is healthy right now and has been training for a while. I don't expect her to run 1:54 every time out but if there haven't been any injuries this year, it's stunning that she is so far off her best.
She beat Nia Akins because Akins is a total head case (or, wait for it - god's will).
She beat Michaela Rose because Rose runs every 800 like it's her first time, either the first lap 2 seconds too fast or 2 seconds too slow.
Perhaps the women's 800 is just attracting the crazies in the US right now...
And she lost to **checks notes**, among others, Americans Rachel Gearing (pb 1:59.50), McKenna Keegan (pb 1.59.73) and Veronica Hargrave (pb this race @ 2:00.11), all who ran between the 53rd and 74th fastest time in the 800M in competition this year. So she lost to essentially 3 unknowns who would get completely blown off the track in a Diamond League event this year.
Positives and negatives from that one for Athing Mu-Nikolayev.
I'll start with the negatives:
2:00.42 three weeks out from USAs is not good.
"A man's got to know his limitations." -- Harry Callahan
Jonathan, with all due respect, you are unqualified to make such an assessment of Mu's trajectory. You don't have the personal athletic background, nor the observed/studied historical knowledge the sport, nor the intimate knowledge of Mu to make that opinion. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm simply saying your hubris is getting the better of you. Restrain yourself. You should respect your limitations. Are you cool with that?
You know the old adage, "Sometimes it's better to be quiet and be thought the fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Never, EVER, attempt to speak for the readiness of an Olympic Gold medalist/World Champion/American Record-holder. She knows better than you.
On the other hand, with over 50 years of experience in the sport, I've seen this before. I've also been there, done that myself.
From personal experience: May 26 -- 8:48.6 3000m steeplechase June 11 -- 8:22.5 American record
Laughable response. Mu showed her fitness loud and clear fading from 2nd to 6th on the second 400M with clearly nothing left in the tank the last 100M. And Gault is correct - 2:00.42 with 3 weeks prior to USA's is not good, given that at Diamond League events the top 8 in the women's 800M I think are all under 2:00, and the winners are usually at 1:56 / 1:57. It's much more difficult to get from 2:00 to 1:57 than from 2:03 to 2:00.
During the month of June in 1972, Lasse Viren ran 4 5000m races:
1. 14:45 3rd
2. 13:49 1st
3. 13:54 1st
4. 13:37 2nd
In July 1972, Lasse ran 4 more 5000m races:
1. 13:51 3rd
2. 13:44 2nd
3. 13:33 2nd
4. 13:19 1st
That fall, Lasse won Gold at 5000m and 10000m. As Malmo says, maybe Athing Mu knows what is going on more than the posters here. I respect Gault’s and Thoughtsleader’s opinions. I don’t care if they ran super fast or not. But Malmo has some insight into this, at least insofar as the athlete may have a plan, and maybe the athlete and her coach don’t give a rat’s ass about message board posters’ hysteria. We shall see.
Wow, referring back to a dude who ran 53 years ago. That's totally relevant to this discussion for sure.
Going to the lead meant she looked a lot better. That's her mental struggle. I didn't really care so much about the remainder, after she was being true to herself.
Mu looks to be a month short and vulnerable to a late cavalry charge. Other Americans will no longer be intimidated. Mu actually invited more traffic problems via her misadventure last year.
It's not clear to me who will establish the pace at 800 trials. Ajee Wilson thinks she's no longer capable of that. Micaela Rose is all over the place. Mu would like to run it that way but lacks fitness and confidence.
Wiley is the known quantity in that she'll move outside near the bell and establish good position. Then it's a matter of whether she patiently waits until 200 remaining, like the Monaco 1000, or gets rank on the backstretch and falters late.
Roisin Willis is seldom out of the top 3 when she's in a good frame. That stalker style is plug and play.
This is a really good post. The problem that Mu faces is that all of her superlative times are by running out front wire to wire. But now she's totally spooked because she almost fell once then fell for real at the Oly trials when she ran from the front. That was her secret weapon (run in front and dare people to catch up to her), and given her mental state and fitness, that weapon has been removed. Mu has not shown herself to be a sit and kick runner, and there are other runners at USA's that have better kicks from 200/100M out. So I think she's really stuck.
"A man's got to know his limitations." -- Harry Callahan
Jonathan, with all due respect, you are unqualified to make such an assessment of Mu's trajectory. You don't have the personal athletic background, nor the observed/studied historical knowledge the sport, nor the intimate knowledge of Mu to make that opinion. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm simply saying your hubris is getting the better of you. Restrain yourself. You should respect your limitations. Are you cool with that?
You know the old adage, "Sometimes it's better to be quiet and be thought the fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Never, EVER, attempt to speak for the readiness of an Olympic Gold medalist/World Champion/American Record-holder. She knows better than you.
On the other hand, with over 50 years of experience in the sport, I've seen this before. I've also been there, done that myself.
From personal experience: May 26 -- 8:48.6 3000m steeplechase June 11 -- 8:22.5 American record
Laughable response. Mu showed her fitness loud and clear fading from 2nd to 6th on the second 400M with clearly nothing left in the tank the last 100M. And Gault is correct - 2:00.42 with 3 weeks prior to USA's is not good, given that at Diamond League events the top 8 in the women's 800M I think are all under 2:00, and the winners are usually at 1:56 / 1:57. It's much more difficult to get from 2:00 to 1:57 than from 2:03 to 2:00.
I think Malmo has a decent point in there somwhere. I mean Hocker improved almost 5 seconds from Pre last year (3:48 mile) to Paris (3:27). Maybe Kersee is going for this approach with all the overdistance training. Obviously she has a much smaller timeframe though.
I think Malmo has a decent point in there somwhere. I mean Hocker improved almost 5 seconds from Pre last year (3:48 mile) to Paris (3:27). Maybe Kersee is going for this approach with all the overdistance training. Obviously she has a much smaller timeframe though.
Hocker had a pretty disruptive stumble in that race with Kessler and he had 10 weeks until Paris. This is completely different, Mu had a perfect trip to run 1:58-9 in this race, the 57s lap was too fast for her fitness.
When Mu ran the Holloway Classic in Gainesville last year, it was the first time in 1,617 days, nearly 4-1/2 years, that she lost to another American in an 800m final (ignoring the fall @ the Trials).
Her 800m races since: July 19, 2024 - Holloway Classic - lost to Addy Wiley, Olivia Baker, Rachel Gearing July 5, 2025 - Pre Classic - lost to Raevyn Rogers July 12, 2025 - Ed Murphey Classic - lost to Ajee' Wilson, Rachel Gearing, McKenna Keegan, Veronica Hargrove
Seven different Americans have beaten her in three races after zero Americans beating her from February 14, 2020 - July 18, 2024. Five additional Americans ran faster than her on the same day @ Sunset Tour yesterday.
She WILL NOT make the team. She will almost certainly not make the final.
When fitness is an issue in one race, it’s clear that a competition with 3 races will be significantly more difficult. Given her performance in this race, making the trials final would be a good result. Getting top 3 seems virtually impossible, given the accumulated fatigue that qualifying rounds would add to her legs. Then again, stranger things have happened, so perhaps I’ll have to eat my words. If she pulls it off, that would be an insane improvement in a very short period of time.