who have brojo reported for epo?

I thank you for your too good words. My point, regarding drugs, is that I firmly believe that, for NORMAL TALENTED ATHLETES with a good plan and the interest in being serious and professional, times like 1:46 / 3:37 / 13:20 / 28:00 / 61:30 / 2:10 / 8:20 (steeple), or for ladies 2:02 / 4:06 / 8:45 / 15:10 / 32:20 / 1:10 / 2:26 and 9:30 are reachable WITHOUT ANY DRUG. This is valid for European and American, not only for African. And, in the past, we have a lot of runners able to go so fast without taking drugs.

When I was lecturer, one month ago, in Antalya with European Coaches, for IAAF, speaking about the fact that are not African runners too fast, but are European runners too slow, I put on the blackboard the result of 10000m during European Championships 1978 (28 years ago !), where Arne Kvahleim was no. 9 running 27:41 ! So, or we have to suppose that ALL THE BEST AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN RUNNERS OF 30 YEARS AGO WERE UNDER DRUG, or we have to suppose that, now, the interest of talented people is going in another direction, supposing that yet there are runners talented as before.

Some name : in 1500m Cram, Coe, Ovett (Moorcroft able running 3:33 had to emigrate to 5000m), that were top in the World, but also Hudak, Wessinghage, Deleze, Abascal, Gonzalez, and I forget a lot of runners. And in US, were Scott, Spivey, Maree of sure doped, or simply were runners with more correct ideas about hard training, with fire in their heart ? Who remembers Walker, Dixon (from 1500m to win NY Marathon), Quax, and before big talents like Herb Elliot, able at 22 years to win Olympic Games in a new World Record of 3:35.6, without rabbits, like last competition in his career ? What could Herb Elliot do if his athletics, without money (so he had to retire in order to work for living), could be the athletics of today ? Running under 3:30 at 26 years could be very easy.

And what about Lopes and Mamede, 27:13 many years ago ? And what about Derek Clayton, able running 2:08 in 1969 ?

My idea is that one of the limits for our white runners is the idea that many Africans are under drug. I had a discussion with Genny Di Napoli many years ago : he, already 28 years old (it was in 1996), told me that was tired to run against doped athletes, not allowing him to win. I answered him : "Genny, you are your problem, because were able running 3:32 beating Coe when you were 20. In any Country, an athlete with your talent, able running 3:32 at 20 years without very much training, when is 28 must run under 3:30 ; instead, now you run 3:36. What your decrease has to do with the doping of other athletes ?".

If you don't believe that, for example, don't need big talent, but continuity and strong application, for running 2:10 in a Marathon, starting from 30:00 in 10000m (I have my athletes like example, that at 30 years were able also to run 13:58 and 28:50 preparing marathon in 2:11, when were not able running under 4:19 in 1500m when juniores), you limit yourself first of all.

You must believe that these performances are good for a good but normal CLEAN athlete. Motivation, till that level, is the most important thing.

And we have a lot of examples that, in our events, doping is useless. For example, Salvatore Antibo made self-transfusion in 1984, before LA (OG), because that time it was a practice from the most part of Italian runners (from Cova to Gabriella Dorio). After this, NEVER did the same thing again, and continued to improve, becoming in 1990 the best in the World, of sure able running under 27:00 with a competitive race (he ran 27:16 in 1989 after a bad injury, the next year was very much stronger). For example, our best walkers, Damilano, used that system (that, don't forget, till 1985 was legal) in 1982, before his European Championships in Athens, AND NEVER COMPETED SO BAD, so, after that experience, didn't use anything, becoming World Champion in 1987 and betaing the WR of 30km (one of the best performances) in 1992, 35 years old.

So, because at that time selftransfusion was not doping, we can have a list of athletes using this system before '85, and not using after '85. In almost all these cases, they were able to improve WITHOUT this practice.

I remember a lady, not talented in her body but in her mind, Silvana Cruciata, that was an employee working 8 hours per day, at the beginning of 1980, when the longest official event for women were 3000m. She ran 4:03 as front runner, 2:02 with 58.7 of PB in 800, 8:46 in 3000m, but was talented for long run, becoming the WR holder of 1 hr on track (18,080, with a passage in 33:02 for 10000m). She won the first title in Marathon with 2:44 (when Marathon didn't exist for women), and retired. After 6 years, in 1988, I was in Rome Marathon with Maria Curatolo, that was the winner, and for 25 km I could see a Cruciata 20 kg heavier than the past running at the same pace. I was surprised when I saw her arriving in 2:49. What that lady coul run if the Marathon already was an official event ? I suppose under 2:24, because her talent was in that direction. BUT SHE RAN 2:02 in 800, and now this is difficult for athletes running 53.0. There is something not working very well in the ideas of training of today, or in the brain of the athletes of today. Do you know one difference ? 30/20 years ago runners ENJOYED running, now they have a lot of pressure and destroy themselves BEFORE the race, that becomes an examination, not a joy.

Renato

whats your belief for altitude for european and americans born at sea level. It seems that most of those people you listed, all spent there careers training at sea level. I think now a days a lot of the better talent is training at altitude.

Renato

I agree with what you say re many top European runners making major progress when they make big lifestyle/work changes, which often comes when they get federation support/sponsorship. I'm thinking Spain/portugal/Italy - but also some UK examples. Several of the Spanish guys identify giving up work, and sleeping about 11-12 hours a day instaed of about 7, as a huge factor in making big improvements.

I remember watching the European Champs 10k in '78 - I recall Brendan Foster ran about 27.32 and missed a medal. It's also true I think that in that period, the elite East Germans, Russians and , a few years later, the Italians, were also part of a state/federation managed doping programme - either the athletes themselves and/or documents from the sports institutes confirm this. No doubt the athletes were really talented, trained very hard (I've seen detailed GDR and USSR programmes in RFEA seminars re Kirstin Wessel at 10k and Jens Peter Herrold at 1500), had science and medical support well ahead of what nations such as UK had at that time - but they also cheated, perhaps in some cases without knowing they were doing so.

Regarding doping being useless, i wonder how you fit that statement into the cases of people like Mourhit, SaidiSief, Cathal Lombard and, to a degree, tho he has come back to fast form at age 35, Alberto Garcia?

Renato,

What do you have to say about Spanish runners?? Many have use EPO, correct? (many, many cyclists DEFINITELY have)

And will wejo ever give us the name of the doper whose drugs he saw a video of, or will just continue to play his silly "guessing game" with us?

What Coach canova says about testing within Kenya is on the money. In 2000 I was at the KIM camp in Nyahuru with Osoro, Kiptanui (coaching), etc. and IAAF testers showed up, even demanding that I prove my slow old guy identity and checking their lists.

Renato Canova wrote:

I suppose that in US there are too many people reading spy and/or yellow stories...

In Italy, spy stories are collectively known as "Giallo" (which is also the Italian word for the color yellow). Hence Renato's term, "yellow stories".

This is similar to the popularity in 50s Hollywood of the term "Noir" (also the French word for "black") used for the same kind of spy / secret agent / Hitchcock type films.