"Bruh", 3 things can be true at once. Anyone can research effective training techniques now and even see the training logs of pros. That plus shoes.
Bruh, instagram, FB, stava, and the internet have been out forever. What are they posting now that they weren’t posting in 2018 and 2019 when ZERO HS sub 4s were ran?
Lol. You are clearly younger than me. Strava, instagram and all that are relatively recent in the grand scheme, and clearly there is a lag between all these resources, the number of users and performance. People had access to medical journals with regard to double threshold for example for 30 yrs, but nobody knew where to look. Now every HS kid and rec runner sees an article every month in some outdoorsy mag about Jacob DT, 80/20, or zone 2, Hill reps, xtraining or strength training. Kids ask me about doing more hill reps, or why are we not doing DT? Nobody asked me that even 5 yrs ago. Not to even mention 1000s of youtube vids by Sage, Steve Magness, and others..... I've had 2 adults approach me in one week asking about zone 2 while I was coaching. All this stuff is out there with more people using the stuff you listed. Plus.....zapatos. Plus Garmins/Apple watches....
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
Bruh, instagram, FB, stava, and the internet have been out forever. What are they posting now that they weren’t posting in 2018 and 2019 when ZERO HS sub 4s were ran?
Lol. You are clearly younger than me. Strava, instagram and all that are relatively recent in the grand scheme, and clearly there is a lag between all these resources, the number of users and performance. People had access to medical journals with regard to double threshold for example for 30 yrs, but nobody knew where to look. Now every HS kid and rec runner sees an article every month in some outdoorsy mag about Jacob DT, 80/20, or zone 2, Hill reps, xtraining or strength training. Kids ask me about doing more hill reps, or why are we not doing DT? Nobody asked me that even 5 yrs ago. Not to even mention 1000s of youtube vids by Sage, Steve Magness, and others..... I've had 2 adults approach me in one week asking about zone 2 while I was coaching. All this stuff is out there with more people using the stuff you listed. Plus.....zapatos. Plus Garmins/Apple watches....
Lol! Were they around in years 2015 - 2019? Just because you weren’t asked about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t available. From 2015-2019 only FIVE HS runners broke 4. From 2020-2025, TWENTY FIVE HS runners have done so. You’re telling me that everyone all-of-a-sudden got wise to “medical journals” and “hill repeats” in two years all at the same time? Exactly coinciding with release of bouncy shoes!? What a coincidence! Everyone looking for a reason for fast times and ignoring the absolute #1 obvious reason. And if you think JI is running 7:17 3k solely based off DT training - LOL!
This is too easy. Do you have runners currently racing in super spikes? Ask them to run a few races in non super spikes/shoes (if they still exist). Chart the difference. I bet you won’t be able to talk a single runner into it because they know they’re at a significant disadvantage the second they step on the track.
Lol. You are clearly younger than me. Strava, instagram and all that are relatively recent in the grand scheme, and clearly there is a lag between all these resources, the number of users and performance. People had access to medical journals with regard to double threshold for example for 30 yrs, but nobody knew where to look. Now every HS kid and rec runner sees an article every month in some outdoorsy mag about Jacob DT, 80/20, or zone 2, Hill reps, xtraining or strength training. Kids ask me about doing more hill reps, or why are we not doing DT? Nobody asked me that even 5 yrs ago. Not to even mention 1000s of youtube vids by Sage, Steve Magness, and others..... I've had 2 adults approach me in one week asking about zone 2 while I was coaching. All this stuff is out there with more people using the stuff you listed. Plus.....zapatos. Plus Garmins/Apple watches....
Lol! Were they around in years 2015 - 2019? Just because you weren’t asked about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t available. From 2015-2019 only FIVE HS runners broke 4. From 2020-2025, TWENTY FIVE HS runners have done so. You’re telling me that everyone all-of-a-sudden got wise to “medical journals” and “hill repeats” in two years all at the same time? Exactly coinciding with release of bouncy shoes!? What a coincidence! Everyone looking for a reason for fast times and ignoring the absolute #1 obvious reason. And if you think JI is running 7:17 3k solely based off DT training - LOL!
This is too easy. Do you have runners currently racing in super spikes? Ask them to run a few races in non super spikes/shoes (if they still exist). Chart the difference. I bet you won’t be able to talk a single runner into it because they know they’re at a significant disadvantage the second they step on the track.
Lol. You are clearly younger than me. Strava, instagram and all that are relatively recent in the grand scheme, and clearly there is a lag between all these resources, the number of users and performance. People had access to medical journals with regard to double threshold for example for 30 yrs, but nobody knew where to look. Now every HS kid and rec runner sees an article every month in some outdoorsy mag about Jacob DT, 80/20, or zone 2, Hill reps, xtraining or strength training. Kids ask me about doing more hill reps, or why are we not doing DT? Nobody asked me that even 5 yrs ago. Not to even mention 1000s of youtube vids by Sage, Steve Magness, and others..... I've had 2 adults approach me in one week asking about zone 2 while I was coaching. All this stuff is out there with more people using the stuff you listed. Plus.....zapatos. Plus Garmins/Apple watches....
Lol! Were they around in years 2015 - 2019? Just because you weren’t asked about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t available. From 2015-2019 only FIVE HS runners broke 4. From 2020-2025, TWENTY FIVE HS runners have done so. You’re telling me that everyone all-of-a-sudden got wise to “medical journals” and “hill repeats” in two years all at the same time? Exactly coinciding with release of bouncy shoes!? What a coincidence! Everyone looking for a reason for fast times and ignoring the absolute #1 obvious reason. And if you think JI is running 7:17 3k solely based off DT training - LOL!
This is too easy. Do you have runners currently racing in super spikes? Ask them to run a few races in non super spikes/shoes (if they still exist). Chart the difference. I bet you won’t be able to talk a single runner into it because they know they’re at a significant disadvantage the second they step on the track.
I agree, shoes are the biggest part. But you are mistaken, I won't re write my post but even if we use 2015 as u propose, the number of people on strava (almost infinitely more), instagram (almost infinitely more), youtubers, overall dissemination of these staple workouts is astronomically higher. For HS and below for sure. The info is 1000s% more consumable.
I agree, shoes are the biggest part. But you are mistaken, I won't re write my post but even if we use 2015 as u propose, the number of people on strava (almost infinitely more), instagram (almost infinitely more), youtubers, overall dissemination of these staple workouts is astronomically higher. For HS and below for sure. The info is 1000s% more consumable.
So what is this available training that is suddenly turning runners that would otherwise be running a 4:04 mile into runners that are now running 3:58? What training are runners doing now that they weren’t doing in 2019?
I believe only two sub-4 miles have happened outside of all-star meets in this era, Griffin's PA state and the Georgia kid's home meet. That indicates that bringing the country's best milers together, or racing against collegiates and pros, is the key to many of the sub-4s. This used to happen basically once every few years when Pre would let one U.S. high schooler run the mile. That is where Webb ran his 3:53.43 (his indoor sub-4 was against collegians and pros in NY). Now it happens every few weeks.
I believe only two sub-4 miles have happened outside of all-star meets in this era, Griffin's PA state and the Georgia kid's home meet. That indicates that bringing the country's best milers together, or racing against collegiates and pros, is the key to many of the sub-4s. This used to happen basically once every few years when Pre would let one U.S. high schooler run the mile. That is where Webb ran his 3:53.43 (his indoor sub-4 was against collegians and pros in NY). Now it happens every few weeks.
That's a good point. Ryun ran 4:06.4 to break the national mile record in 1964 as a junior (my last race as a senior).
Within a few weeks he ran 3:59.0 getting 8th place in a race against top competition. Soon after that ran 3:39.0 in the '64 Olympic Trials barely edging out Jim Grelle for 3rd place.
A 3:39.0 1500m is equivalent to a 3:56.5 mile, a full 10 seconds faster than his time in a high school race.
I agree, shoes are the biggest part. But you are mistaken, I won't re write my post but even if we use 2015 as u propose, the number of people on strava (almost infinitely more), instagram (almost infinitely more), youtubers, overall dissemination of these staple workouts is astronomically higher. For HS and below for sure. The info is 1000s% more consumable.
So what is this available training that is suddenly turning runners that would otherwise be running a 4:04 mile into runners that are now running 3:58? What training are runners doing now that they weren’t doing in 2019?
So, in a country of 360 million people, you cant wrap your brain around a literally a few more people running sub 4 when information is at an all time high in all the aspects I listed + super shoes? You are literally the only person alive that believes everyone had access to the same information today as 10 years ago. I cant help you.
There are multiple factors besides the shoes (which probably are worth a few seconds). Anyone who ran in the late 80s/early 90s can tell you that almost everything has changed in high school distance running since back then, leading to dramatically improved results. Nobody could tell you which of the factors is more important than the other:
1) Better middle school programs, leading to more runners who are in their 5th, 6th, 10th, etc year of training when they are a senior vs someone like myself who was in my 3rd year of running as a senior.
2) People training all year round rather than taking the summer/winter off, or doing other sports.
3) Widely available information about how to train. Less people playing the lottery of whether their high school coach knows what they're doing (most don't).
4) Better nutrition, physical therapy, etc helping to improve recovery
5) The death of the "no pain, no gain" mentality. My child's team has one the state record holder in the mile. Most of his workouts would have been light for me (I was 10-15 seconds slower than this kid). Kids are smarter and aren't trying to crush every interval workout or long run.
6) Better competition. At the very top where all these sub 4 guys are, they have more opportunities to race people at their level. When I was just a mere 4:20 guy, I had 2-3 races a year where I had someone sub 4:40 to race against, and usually just 1 or 2 guys so there wasn't a big herd effect like Arcadia.
7) Mentality. When sub 4 has become an annual thing, the top guys are aiming for it and taking their shot. They aren't running 4:03 and thinking "that's good enough"
8) Super shoes, tracks, bicarb, etc. These things help take a few seconds off, so a 4:02 - 4:03 guy back in the 90s would be sub 4 today if they pulled out all the stops.
Because it happens incrementally, people don't seem to be aware how much the spread of knowledge and the sharing of information is rapidly transforming the scene. In my city, most of the top kids are still training and racing mostly incorrectly. You see a lot of very bad pacing during races, some people massively overrating, etc. There are a lot of things that can be optimized. Each year there is improvement and knowledge is spreading around. The level of competition is improving fast.
Great post. The only thing I would add is that super shoes are not just advantageous in racing, but also training. Yes, they may account directly for a few seconds in a mile race, but think about how much they help by allowing for faster and less impactful running over a long period of time. Threshold training with less injury is the key reason we see so much improvement, in my opinion. I don’t think that’s as viable a training method without the improved shoes. I’d like to see someone attempt 20k of double threshold per day, twice per week, in 1990’s Reebok Aztreks or Adidas Ozwegos.
So what is this available training that is suddenly turning runners that would otherwise be running a 4:04 mile into runners that are now running 3:58? What training are runners doing now that they weren’t doing in 2019?
So, in a country of 360 million people, you cant wrap your brain around a literally a few more people running sub 4 when information is at an all time high in all the aspects I listed + super shoes? You are literally the only person alive that believes everyone had access to the same information today as 10 years ago. I cant help you.
A few more? Lol - Ok. Once again, what training did HS runners start doing in 2021/22 that they weren’t doing in 2019?
Wow, that's amazing !!! Quick question, though, what kind of shoes were these boys wearing?
I was speaking more broadly than just the two runners in this race. Even if they’re not training in the $300 carbon fiber shoes every day, the base model trainers of today are far superior to shoes of even 10 years ago.