We merged two threads on the same subject into 1 and kept the title of the 1st one posted. The 2nd thread title was, “Whether you believe me or not, I’m coming back,” Shelby says. “I’ve served the time.”
how are people still this naive. people lie constantly and easily. its not that hard to make a sad face and regurgitate the exact phrases her Nike sponsored lawyers told her to say. Think about her alternative, come clean? that would be worse for her reputation in the long term than the current tactic. she is back, and she will race and she will never come clean. ever. she has lived with this lie for so long that it probably feels true to her at this point. she has zero skills outside of running, and this path ensures that she'll be paid. of course its wrong but it is so simple
how are people still this naive. people lie constantly and easily. its not that hard to make a sad face and regurgitate the exact phrases her Nike sponsored lawyers told her to say. Think about her alternative, come clean? that would be worse for her reputation in the long term than the current tactic. she is back, and she will race and she will never come clean. ever. she has lived with this lie for so long that it probably feels true to her at this point. she has zero skills outside of running, and this path ensures that she'll be paid. of course its wrong but it is so simple
Shelby’s pathological lying is really the issue here. You can tell us anything you want Shelby except the truth. The truth you shall never reveal, unless it is for a book years from now when you need the money.
This. I can understand why an athlete feels compelled to dope. As others have noted, it is fairly rampant and only a small percentage get caught. I can empathize with feeling the need to do whatever you can to be able to compete at the upper levels. And I'd be ready for forgive if she was contrite, and said, "I wanted to be the best, and I was willing to do what it takes, and I paid a big price."
But instead she just lies and denies and blames everyone else, and she comes off like an Elizabeth Holmes or Anna Delvey or Lance Armstrong. She seems like a narcissist and a sociopath, the kind of person who will resort to grift or scams.
Being an admitted, lying cheater is better than being a lying cheater? I don’t see much of a difference and a confession would have only worked had it been immediate.
”I wanted to be the best…” is why they have testing.
"She insists she never knowingly took a banned substance. But Houlihan, 32, no longer blames tainted meat, saying she isn’t sure what caused her failed test.
“I don’t have answers for what happened,” she said. “I just have a lot of theories.”
Houlihan settled on the burrito argument because she and her legal team had just seven days to formulate a defense, she says. She had eaten at a food truck that served pig organs the day before her test, which can trigger positives."
I mean we are done right? I read this and my mind reverts to my Sunday School upbringing and Proverbs 21:23 - "Watch your tongue and keep your mouth shut, and you will stay out of trouble".
She is a moron. She is an absolute moron. WHY would you ever say this? You "no longer blame tainted meat" - huh?! - that was the entire basis or your defense that you not only you tried once but then tried to appeal again using as your basis. But now you say quote “It sounds kind of ridiculous,” - yeah no kidding Shelby. No kidding.
Now it "could be" tainted vitamins? Oh my god - Shelby we knew this the whole time but of course the key thing here is that you also 100% knew they were tainted - you just didn't have the same control or discipline your boyfriend had with his 7, 3-Andro. Even worse is that you got Jerry and Shalane to die on cross supporting you on this making themselves look stupid as they blasted the "corrupt system" which turns out now wasn't corrupt - it catches people who use "tainted vitamins" - which is exactly what it should do.
Then we had the 15-minutes-of fame keyboard warrior weasels like Twonkle and Rekt-rd with their "next level" higher plateau of intelligence takes, castigating us all for calling her cheat. Well I'm sorry but in this sport, someone that takes a "vitamin" that leads to them testing positive for a performance enhancing substance in egregious excess in their system that then LIES about how it got there, instead volunteering a story so ridiculous it got flamed twice in both actual court and in the court of public opinion but even more poignantly , is so absurd that now they finally are just like "yeah I didn't believe it myself" - you knew what you were doing and you knowingly cheated.
And anyone that doesn't believe this - after this cherry on the sundae out of her mouth - is a delusion fool.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Why does it feel like everyone is and has been missing the point?
The burrito story never would have existed were contaminated meat not a valid precedent for a positive test. Since then, there have been multiple instances of contaminated vitamins and supplements. GATORADE had a vitamin FRAUDULENTLY labeled NSF certified.
When proving innocence falls to the athlete, it makes sense (whether guilty OR innocent) to look at what has happened to innocent athletes in the past and try to align events.
Regardless of innocence or guilt, the actual point is that the system IS flawed, and honestly our food and drug regulations are clearly less effective than the general public probably realizes.
I don't think there's a clear solution because doping enforcement is hard, but I do think it's pretty tragic that a ban intended to last for an olympic cycle effectively lasted for two because of Covid. So there's a double bummer if Shelby is innocent, which makes the "it's an imperfect system, but 1 out 99 tests being wrong is better than unlimited doping" argument a little more painful in her particular case.
Why does it feel like everyone is and has been missing the point?
The burrito story never would have existed were contaminated meat not a valid precedent for a positive test. Since then, there have been multiple instances of contaminated vitamins and supplements. GATORADE had a vitamin FRAUDULENTLY labeled NSF certified.
When proving innocence falls to the athlete, it makes sense (whether guilty OR innocent) to look at what has happened to innocent athletes in the past and try to align events.
Regardless of innocence or guilt, the actual point is that the system IS flawed, and honestly our food and drug regulations are clearly less effective than the general public probably realizes.
I don't think there's a clear solution because doping enforcement is hard, but I do think it's pretty tragic that a ban intended to last for an olympic cycle effectively lasted for two because of Covid. So there's a double bummer if Shelby is innocent, which makes the "it's an imperfect system, but 1 out 99 tests being wrong is better than unlimited doping" argument a little more painful in her particular case.
They'll gloss over relevant precedents to just say they KNOW she intentionally doped. Just like they glossed over my comment about the lab director lying under oath for Lawson's case.
They'll gloss over relevant precedents to just say they KNOW she intentionally doped. Just like they glossed over my comment about the lab director lying under oath for Lawson's case.
Why do you lie so much?? OK, most drug cheat defenders do, but your "lab director lying under oath" elevates that to a new level.
"She insists she never knowingly took a banned substance. But Houlihan, 32, no longer blames tainted meat, saying she isn’t sure what caused her failed test.
“I don’t have answers for what happened,” she said. “I just have a lot of theories.”
Houlihan settled on the burrito argument because she and her legal team had just seven days to formulate a defense, she says. She had eaten at a food truck that served pig organs the day before her test, which can trigger positives."
I mean we are done right? I read this and my mind reverts to my Sunday School upbringing and Proverbs 21:23 - "Watch your tongue and keep your mouth shut, and you will stay out of trouble".
She is a moron. She is an absolute moron. WHY would you ever say this? You "no longer blame tainted meat" - huh?! - that was the entire basis or your defense that you not only you tried once but then tried to appeal again using as your basis. But now you say quote “It sounds kind of ridiculous,” - yeah no kidding Shelby. No kidding.
Now it "could be" tainted vitamins? Oh my god - Shelby we knew this the whole time but of course the key thing here is that you also 100% knew they were tainted - you just didn't have the same control or discipline your boyfriend had with his 7, 3-Andro. Even worse is that you got Jerry and Shalane to die on cross supporting you on this making themselves look stupid as they blasted the "corrupt system" which turns out now wasn't corrupt - it catches people who use "tainted vitamins" - which is exactly what it should do.
Then we had the 15-minutes-of fame keyboard warrior weasels like Twonkle and Rekt-rd with their "next level" higher plateau of intelligence takes, castigating us all for calling her cheat. Well I'm sorry but in this sport, someone that takes a "vitamin" that leads to them testing positive for a performance enhancing substance in egregious excess in their system that then LIES about how it got there, instead volunteering a story so ridiculous it got flamed twice in both actual court and in the court of public opinion but even more poignantly , is so absurd that now they finally are just like "yeah I didn't believe it myself" - you knew what you were doing and you knowingly cheated.
And anyone that doesn't believe this - after this cherry on the sundae out of her mouth - is a delusion fool.
Amen to this.
also, she ended up cracking and admitting to all of this because she wasn’t talking to some loser running media person who licks out of the palm of her hand. She was talking to someone who was actually doing their job and asking the right questions probably hammering her on how stupid the burrito thing was in the first place so she had to admit all this.
She went to great lengths sticking to the burrito myth. Now saying it may have been vitamins is as close to what she’ll admit to taking the banned substance orally. She’s never going to admit the entire truth but she’s served her ban and racing again. I think interviews are just pay days now. She now change her story as often as she likes and gets paid. Regardless she is talented and didn’t need to take a cheaters route.
They'll gloss over relevant precedents to just say they KNOW she intentionally doped. Just like they glossed over my comment about the lab director lying under oath for Lawson's case.
Ah but you see here is mental gymnastic these guys use to resolve and justify it with themselves and fool the average "wishful thinker" out there.
These "vitamins" of course don't contain banned substances (we know what they contain and if you don't then you shouldn't be commenting on this topic), so this makes it incredibly easy to say "I didn't take a banned substance" (which isn't incorrect).
And because of that, the easy outs are to say a) "well if I didn't knowingly put a banned substance into my body, how could I possibly be cheating"? and b) "if my vitamins made me test positive for nandrolone (for example) and there is no nandrolone written right there on the ingredients list - then it must be due to contamination".
c) "Therefore how is it possible I intentionally doped. Poor me. Let me off. System is broke and corrupt". Blah, blah, blaaaahhh.
That this formula - used every season, for decades and decades now - still manages to fool people and misdirect them from the obvious, is such a depressing indictment on the intelligence of our species in the 21st century.
I said what the CAS said: "it was possible" and that "no one established the source" to any standard beyond presumption.
That's what you said in your 2500 troll posts about the burrito? Hahahahaha
And FYI, CAS said it would have to be a combination of improbable and highly improbable scenarios, plus that the carbon isotope ratio was not consistent with the burrito story. "it was possible" - what a typical rekrunner'esque summary.
The CAS said many other things based on the incomplete evidence, and a set of unproven assumptions. They did not say that any other source was more likely than the original claim of offal in a burrito.
I said what the CAS said: "it was possible" and that "no one established the source" to any standard beyond presumption.
The source didn't need establishing; it wasn't and isnt a requirement of the rules. The banned substance was in her body. She is presumed responsible for what is found in her body. It was up to her to show she didn't put it there. She couldn't. She therefore doped.
Sounds like an ideal framework for railroading innocent athletes to 4-year bans with minimal cost and burden.
"She insists she never knowingly took a banned substance. But Houlihan, 32, no longer blames tainted meat, saying she isn’t sure what caused her failed test.
“I don’t have answers for what happened,” she said. “I just have a lot of theories.”
Houlihan settled on the burrito argument because she and her legal team had just seven days to formulate a defense, she says. She had eaten at a food truck that served pig organs the day before her test, which can trigger positives."
I mean we are done right? I read this and my mind reverts to my Sunday School upbringing and Proverbs 21:23 - "Watch your tongue and keep your mouth shut, and you will stay out of trouble".
She is a moron. She is an absolute moron. WHY would you ever say this? You "no longer blame tainted meat" - huh?! - that was the entire basis or your defense that you not only you tried once but then tried to appeal again using as your basis. But now you say quote “It sounds kind of ridiculous,” - yeah no kidding Shelby. No kidding.
Now it "could be" tainted vitamins? Oh my god - Shelby we knew this the whole time but of course the key thing here is that you also 100% knew they were tainted - you just didn't have the same control or discipline your boyfriend had with his 7, 3-Andro. Even worse is that you got Jerry and Shalane to die on cross supporting you on this making themselves look stupid as they blasted the "corrupt system" which turns out now wasn't corrupt - it catches people who use "tainted vitamins" - which is exactly what it should do.
Then we had the 15-minutes-of fame keyboard warrior weasels like Twonkle and Rekt-rd with their "next level" higher plateau of intelligence takes, castigating us all for calling her cheat. Well I'm sorry but in this sport, someone that takes a "vitamin" that leads to them testing positive for a performance enhancing substance in egregious excess in their system that then LIES about how it got there, instead volunteering a story so ridiculous it got flamed twice in both actual court and in the court of public opinion but even more poignantly , is so absurd that now they finally are just like "yeah I didn't believe it myself" - you knew what you were doing and you knowingly cheated.
And anyone that doesn't believe this - after this cherry on the sundae out of her mouth - is a delusion fool.
Of course the CAS said many things, but they didn't call her a cheat. They even said she was credible, as were her witnesses.
But why are you blaming her? -- these are the hoops that all innocent athletes are forced to jump through if they want to defend themselves.
The rules force them to investigate starting from nothing, with low chance of getting sufficient exculpatory evidence, and then establish one "most likely" source. This is the only way to get a reduced sanction, or a waived sanction, without simply bending over and accepting the punishment.
It is not all that hard to see that any athlete put in the position of being notified of a positive test one month after the fact, that doesn't really know how they tested positive, and may never know, would put forth what they believe is the most likely scenario, one that is well supported by the science and WADA guidelines, based on their recollection of what they consumed in the hours preceding the test, on a night one month in the past.
No one said the rules were "corrupt". They are just heavily balanced against all charged athletes, both innocent and guilty, by placing heavy burdens on the athlete. Athletes able to prove their innocence (e.g. Jarrion Lawson and Simon Getzmann) are still out 5-figures for their defense, lost earnings and sponsorship, and served a 1+ year suspension, without any recourse for recuperating the lost earnings. Recall the letsrun paid consultant Prof. Ross Tucker estimated that Houlihan would have to pay 6-figures, to conduct tests for 6-months (likely optimistic), and even the, with a low chance of success. Most athletes are poor, and cannot afford 5-figure defenses, especially the moment that their primary source of income is cut off.
I personally do not think she intentionally doped. I think she's stayed on the Nike payroll through her ban to stay quiet and not admit to the doping to cover up whoever else in the group was actually doing it. My money is on Centro or one of the girls and she either got into their stuff by accident or was tricked into taking it by someone sabotaging her.
I just don't think you'd fight it and lose your opportunity at an Olympic games as you're getting older if you really didn't believe it wasn't your fault. I know if I did it and was offered two years of my life back I'd take the deal and get back to competitive running and focusing on the olympic games
I don't know, but she at least has her integrity intact.
Nah. As the WJS story says, both Schumacher and Houlihan say her training with the team was in accordance with AIU guidance. So DeBues-Stafford had no reason to leave. Her departure always struck me more as self-righteousness than a show of integrity.
So it's a bit of karmic justice that Houlihan is right back to world-class running, while DeBues-Stafford's career seems to be going nowhere.
Besides, Houlihan's extremely impressive performances in her first races in 5 years demonstrate that she never had a motive to cheat in the first place. She's obviously clean, because she's been tested throughout her suspension. She's just an amazingly talented athlete. Come September, I'll be cheering for her from the stands in Tokyo.
For real? But "training with the team" is only allowed in the last 2 months of the ban - no wonder GDS left:
10.14.2 Return to Training As an exception to Article 10.14.1, an Athlete may return to train with a team or to use the facilities of a club or other member organization of a Signatory’s member organization during the shorter of: (1) the last two months of the Athlete’s period of Ineligibility, or (2) the last one-quarter of the period of Ineligibility imposed.78