Can a highschool coach really “burn out” their athletes to the point where they are worse in collegr

It depends on what you mean by "burn out." But I absolutely know of high school coaches who coached their female athletes into REDs. These girls peaked in high school but then struggled through college because the REDs meant they didn't develop sufficient bone density to avoid a never-ending series of stress fractures that basically sidelined them competitively in college (not to mention the harm that can result if the coach tacitly gives their approval to an athlete's disordered eating). Maybe this doesn't happen so much with genetically gifted elite athletes, but I've absolutely seen it happen with mediocre good athletes. You don't have to be "elite" to "burn out."

But basically, the growing body needs a lot of energy to develop properly. If too much energy is being sucked away by running extreme miles, then yes, a young athlete can develop REDs and suffer a long-term competitive disadvantage. IMO, a good coach will recognize that a growing runner needs to, you know, GROW, and that they shouldn't be pushed to the absolute limit when it comes to mileage.

An example of poor coaching leading to burnout and overdevelopment is Michael Slagowski.

The old coach's at Rocky Mountain ran that kid into the ground.

I worked as an assistant at another school nearby and apparently one of the workouts they had him do mid season was 4x800 with 3 minutes rest: 1:55, 1:55, 1:54, 1:52

Remember that the Idaho 800m state record was/is 1:47 high.

You just don't get to do those kinds of workouts, at that kind of age, for an entire season, and improve after that without having generational talent or some kind of superhuman mindset.

*it was 5 minutes rest

Huge part of burnout or overtraining in highschool leading to poor results in college is just all the new opportunities in college. The runner doing doubles 3x a week in highschool has already spent 2-3 years of their life forgoing social activities for his sport. They get to college and suddenly they're the 8th runner on the team, and not even close to winning events. They get a text from the cute boy/girl on their floor that their hosting a pregame, and they decide to go despite their workout being scheduled the next day. The intensity of college running isn't new and exciting because they've been doing it for 2 years in high school. They don't feel like adding the 10 mpw from their high school load is going to push them from 8th to 1st.

Meanwhile the runner coming in with 50 mpw, is shocked by the intensity of running at college, but it sort of excited about it. They realize that adding in doubles, and doing 80 mpw will make them so much faster. Maybe the additional 30-50 mpw will make them go from the 10th runner to being the 1st runner on the team.

The answer is yes, but it is not that simple.

Too much of anything isn't good and it's not just physical. Sometimes the volume & intensity of training and too many big meets can mentally burnout a kid as well. With all of that said, chronological age doesn't always match up with physical and mental maturity; some kids can handle just about everything you throw at them; the harder you push them, the better they get and then continue to get better in college.

What I did was have specific training for freshman and sophomores, which didn't vary much no matter how good you were. There is a substantial difference between a 15/16-year-old versus a 17/18-year-old. I would somewhat like standard training sets for junior and seniors as well; however, for those couple athletes looking to run and national meets and seeking college scholarships, you are almost forced to train them to the level they are trying to achieve at. Another consideration is an undertrained high school athlete going to a D1 program can have just many problems as an overtrained athlete.

I would love to hear Sean Brosnan’s take on this. Unfortunately there are too many as$holes who talk sh!t on him. I do appreciate Doug Soles for his feedback. Anyone know Brosnan and could you possibly get him to contribute to this conversation.

It’s worth a shot

I knew a guy in high school who ran 20-30mpw and ran 2:03/4:29 as a FRESHMAN. By the time he was a senior he had increased to 40-50mpw and ran 1:57/4:18/9:12. Doesn’t make much sense really

He has no knowledge.

Dumb comments like that are why you’ll never get a good coach to participate on the message boards.

Happens all the time. Just look at Loyola HS in Baltimore. Good runners, but because coaches are more concerned about getting Coach of the Year awards, than developing their athletes - after their senior year - they just fall apart.

The lack of knowledge from these posts are clear you must waste your money on Jay Johnson clinics / Scam or too dense to understand training.

This quite literally happened at my highschool. The pro guy ran in the 4:20s and got a preferred walk on to a mid major. He is a sub 4:00 miler. I ran in the 4:40s with one sub 4:40 performance at the same program and have ran in the low 4:10s and comparatively a bit better in the 1500m.

And yes, 16:30 with 25-30 mpw and questionable coaching and 14:50 off of 50+ mpw at a consistently successful program are very well in the same talent bracket. See Herriman Highschools top 14 before soles, and after soles. Take Herrimans top 14 and compare it to schools with a similar student population and economic demographic.

More anecdotal and less proveable because I want to maintain my privacy, but I was about a 17:00 flat guy my Jr/Sr year, trained privately for a couple months and ran 16:0x at one of the shoe brand regional meets, and ran 14:5x off of 50-60 mpw 800/1500m training after walking on at my college. So I can personally attest that it’s in the same ballpark.

Im not just pulling these figures out of my butt haha. If one team with roughly 40 distance athletes is consistently putting up a 4:10-4:15-4:20-4:20-4:25 type top 5 spread, while another team with roughly 40 athletes is putting up a 4:25-4:40-4:50-4:55-5:00 spread, team 1 is sending 4-5 of these athletes to run in college if they want to, while team 2 is sending 0-2 of these athletes to college. The majority of the time, team 2s coach will make the excuse “I’m just making sure they aren’t burnt out for college” despite not even sending athletes to college.

The reason that the members coming from top HS programs don’t improve as much in college isn’t because they are burnt out and their potential has been squandered, it’s because they got closer to fulfilling their potential. Of course a lifetime potential 3:55 guy will improve more if he ran 4:20 in highschool instead of 4:00. That doesn’t mean the guy who runs 4:00 in HS and 3:55 in college got burnt out, it just means he got closer to his potential and probably left HS with college payed for at a top program, while 4:20 guy either got books at a crappy program or had to walk on at a decent program.

So very LR... people will complain and complain about the lack of coaches that know what they are doing, but also take a dump on anyone that tries to help educate track coaches.

Jay Johnson is like Dumb helping the dumber. So I guess it works

You want to hear from a guy who coached one year in college and got fired? Next you will want legal advice from a law school dropout amd you will want weight loss advice from an obese person.

Probably a subject for a different thread but, what is it that he says that is so so very wrong in your view? Seems like pretty run of the mill running advice to me.

cap

If you’re talking about Brosnan, yes I do want to hear from him. He coached the greatest high school team in history for a number of years with success with the girls and boys. And also had success in college at a high level very quickly. So let’s hear from him.

I also don’t get the Knock on Jay Johnson. He’s just the middle man creating events for others. He’s not a coach.

Same deal here, its been 3 months, April 24th and I'm just starting now. I am on the treadmill now for like 10 minutes a day since I cant run on trails yet. My advice, something like first week 1 mile, off, 2 miles, off 2 miles 3 miles, off. 2nd week 3, 4, 4, off, 4, 5, 5 off and then build up using the 10% rule. Don't you have a coach though?