Is the 800M a sprint?

I dont know wrote:

It requires both sprint and distance elements.

For instance, the following is Will Sumner training according to Will himself:

Will: In terms of mileage, I’d say I graduallybuilt up from my first fall week until the lastweek of training, before indoors started. Ikind of go up a little bit and then plateau, andthen go up a little bit and plateauonly by three miles every, two or three weeks.I started at four or five miles in the first week, and then built up to about 18 by thefirst meet. After that I kind of just stoppedcounting my miles because I didn’t really runas much after that. In terms of a weeklyworkout schedule, basically we’ll do some short speed work on Mondays, usually it’s likeforties and eighties and stuff like that,working on just speed, turnover, things likethat. Tuesday I usually do my aerobic work,so I’ll go with the distance guys, justrun tempos or VO2max workouts.Wednesday, typically I’ll go with the sprintgroup and either do a workout with them orjust like their drills. Thursdays off. Friday is usually the hardest workout of the week, soI’ll do either an 800m workout, a mileworkout, or a 400m workout. Saturday ismy long run, but like I said, the longest I everran was six miles and mostly I’m only doinglike three or four miles.

So, if Will were just training as an all out sprinter (400 and below) he wouldn’t be doing a long run or VO2 max stuff.

Depends on the athlete wrote:

definitely not distance wrote:

Yes, but obviously I never said that you should never train endurance and aerobic capacity to train for 800M. That is still vital. I just don't feel as though the 800m really requires so much aerobic/endurance training that it can be considered a "distance" or even mid-distance category.

At the end of the day, you're sprinting two laps, and at the end are holding onto whatever you have left for dear life, as you would in the 400M

Some 800m runners have a sprinter's metabolism while others have a distance runner's metabolism yet possess decent speed. The two types of athlete need to be trained differently. Athing Mu is a 400/800 type with 49.57 400m speed. She allegedly never exceeded 35 miles per week (and didn't need to for her 1:54.97). When I say metabolism, there are very specific things in how muscle cells process fat and glycogen, how they deal with recycling lactate, if they are "pure" fast twitch versus the hybrid fast twitch which can adapt either way, or slow twitch. Some sprinters possess better "speed endurance" (how long they can hold their max v or near max v) which also factors into the 800m. These factors are genetic. So it is best to first profile the 800m athlete, then design an individualized program.

There are training groups where the coach uses a cookie-cutter, "one size fits all" approach where the speed oriented 800m specialists train alongside the endurance based ones, all doing the same program. That is a big mistake where one of those types will end up not receiving the proper training and will usually stagnate or regress.

Please learn to read wrote:

Please learn to read wrote:

The poster you responded to did not say the 800 is a sprint. The post says you need to have excellent speed and then need to run the first 600-700 at a pace that is comfortably enough slower than their max (a concept known as "speed reserve") that they then have enough left to maintain the speed and in some cases kick a bit faster for the final 100-200. If you carefully watch Diamond League and major championship 800m finals you will see this is how the champions run the 800.

The poster said it is a mistake to train a speed oriented 800m person the same way you train an endurance oriented 800m runner. Any knowledgeable coach understands the physiology behind this truth.

We have never seen a female athlete like Athing Mu and likely will not see someone like her in our lifetimes. She is not a good example of whatever it is you are trying to prove. Saying a female who sprints 49.x is "not a sprinter" is laughable, regardless of how many 1500s and XC they ran "in their youth".

On the other hand, an endurance oriented 800m runner is someone who does not possess excellent speed, but can run closer to their max speed for a relatively long distance. Such runners do have decent speed, just not excellent speed. In many cases, such runners would benefit from having their running mechanics analyzed and then follow-up with some actual sprint training. Regardless, such runners do better when they train doing higher volumes of longer intervals. If a speed oriented 800m person trains the same way it will usually dull/weaken their speed because they are then training the muscle fibers for endurance/stamina not pure speed, which may be acceptable if the increased endurance results in better performance. So training for the 800 is a delicate balancing act that is dependent on the athletes makeup and how they respond to various types of training.

bigmig19 wrote:

Please learn to read wrote:

On the other hand, an endurance oriented 800m runner is someone who does not possess excellent speed, but can run closer to their max speed for a relatively long distance. Such runners do have decent speed, just not excellent speed. In many cases, such runners would benefit from having their running mechanics analyzed and then follow-up with some actual sprint training. Regardless, such runners do better when they train doing higher volumes of longer intervals. If a speed oriented 800m person trains the same way it will usually dull/weaken their speed because they are then training the muscle fibers for endurance/stamina not pure speed, which may be acceptable if the increased endurance results in better performance. So training for the 800 is a delicate balancing act that is dependent on the athletes makeup and how they respond to various types of training.

Yes, what we are all wrong about is what these Olympic level 800m athletes possess genetically. They are distilled from a million runners and at that level, it's quite possible that someone who has great natural speed in the 400....actually might be the freak that also has elite aerobic genes. It's not one or the other. Thus, I think this argument is hard to have using the best in the world as examples. Kipchoge can beat most of us in the 200 and nick symmonds can kick most of our a$es in the 5k. If you want to know what works, prob should ask HS coaches or science. Athing Mu probably isn't winning 800 because she sprints.

Armstronglivs wrote:

It\'s both wrote:

22 is faster than just about everyone on this board considering majority of posters are distance guys who can't even break 50 in a 400. At most high schools that would make you top 3 fastest on your team maybe even top 3 all time. I've run 22 in the 200. I would score in the 800 at conference in college, but I wasn't making the finals of ncaa let alone the olympics. I'm sure every olympic 800 guy with a week training in the blocks will all run 21.x and some sub 21. If you think those are slow 200 times you're delusional

22 seconds is fast for an endurance athlete - and 800m runners need to be fast. Most top 800 runners were barely faster than 22 secs - Coe and Ovett ran about 21.7 and Snell ran 22-low. The fact is the faster they are the less endurance they have. But at a world-class level, which is what these top 800 runners are, 22 seconds or even 21-high does not make them a sprinter - they are nowhere near it. They are fast md athletes. A schoolboy sprinter who runs 22 secs for the 200 is not a world class 800 runner and never will be because he doesn't have the endurance - and that isn't achieved by training without the necessary aerobic genetics. The 800 is not a sprinters event; it is an event for runners with speed and endurance combined. Pure sprinters are never top 800 runners. If the 800 was a sprint the fastest sprinters on the planet would run it and win. They don't. They can't.

definitely not distance wrote:

Lots of good posts here, I like it

Maybe this is a better question. Is it a controlled sprint? I think so

I don't disagree that it could be "mid-distance"

I think most agree that no matter what, speed and power is vital. You can have the best endurance in the world, but more often than not, if you train a 400 runner moving up to the 800, they will likely beat the miler moving down.

Obviously, sprinting 800m all out from the gun is suicidal. And I never said that's how you should race the distance. Still, with how fast athletes need to run, it certainly feels like a controlled sprint like how some others have stated.

Most world-class 800M athletes are the 400/800 type. It's more speed than endurance

It's the same reason why the mile world record 40 years ago was 3:51, which is 8 seconds slower than what it is today, but the 800M world record 40 years ago was 1:41.73, less than a second slower than today's 1:40.91